Poor, poor Vatican Council II!

It is said Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus with Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance).

I usually have to point out that those saved in invincible ignorance are not known to us but only to God. So how can it contradict the Church teaching that everyone on earth needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation?

Then it is said that every one needs to enter the Church except for those non Catholics with the baptism of desire or who are in invincible ignorance.

Every one needs to enter the Church according to Lumen Gentium 14, Ad Gentes 7 true and we do not know any case of someone saved in the present times with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance.

Then it is said that Vatican Council II also says that a person can be saved with a good conscience or in partial communion with the Church.

Yes we accept in principle that a person can be saved with a good conscience etc but we do not know any explicit case in the present times so it does not contradict the dogma, the saints, the popes, the Church Fathers and Fr. Leonard Feeney ; every one needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation, to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.

Then it is said Vatican Council II has caused a revolution in the Church and changed Church teaching with reference to the dogma outside the church there is no salvation.

Where is the text for this claim? None. There is no such reference.

Nostra Aetate says non Catholics can be saved.

There is no text in Nostra Aetate which says non Catholics in general can be saved in their religion or that their religion is an equal path to salvation as is the Catholic Church.

If any non Catholic is saved it would be known only to Jesus. The ordinary means of salvation according to Vatican Council II (LG 14 etc) is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.

The American Natives were in invincible ignorance and saved before the Catholic missionaries went there we now know.

Catholic Faith and the baptism of water is the ordinary way of salvation (Vatican Council II). Invincible ignorance is not the ordinary way of salvation.

Those saved in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire, good conscience etc are exceptions and known only to God.

In general the American Natives were lost according to Vatican Council II

Vatican Council II says Jews are the Chosen People of God.

There is no such text. Ad Gentes 7 indicates Catholic Faith and the baptism of water are needed for all people to avoid Hell. So Catholics are the Chosen People. They are the people of the New Covenant which is everlasting. They are followers of the Promised Jewish Messiah. They have the Sacrifice which is eternal in the Holy Mass.

Poor, poor Vatican Council! The things that are said in your name!?

-Lionel Andrades