Monday, November 14, 2011

IS THE SSPX MASS VALID? YES, BUT THE PRIEST COULD BE IN MORTAL SIN FOR REJECTING A DEFINED DOGMA WITH HIS ‘EXCEPTIONS’

There are conditions for offering the Tridentine Rite Mass. Are they being met by the SSPX ?


The Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) priests offer the Tridentine Rite Mass and consider the baptism of desire and those saved in invincible ignorance as exceptions to the thrice defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They are in the same position as the priests who offer the Novus Ordo Mass in different languages.

However the SSPX claims on its website that they affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. They also imply that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicitly known to us and so it is an exception to the dogmatic teaching. This is a denial, a rejection of the dogma.

The baptism of desire is always implicit. It would have to be explicitly known to conflict with the dogma outside the church there is no salvation. Yet this is implied in the articles by Fr.Francois Laisney and Fr.Peter Scott. Since these cases are hidden they are really not exceptions. There are no defacto exceptions. If we consider them as exceptions it would mean we can meet non Catholics on the street saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire. You could say to such a person whom you meet, “ Hi John, I’m glad you were saved with the baptism of desire you arose from the dead and returned to live with us once again. I heard the same thing happened with your sister Francesca”.

Invincible Ignorance and the baptism of desire are not exceptions to the dogma but explicitly known invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are exceptions.So one has to imply that the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are explicitly known. We have to assume that we can meet someone on the street saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance. Only because it is ‘explicitly known’ is it an exception to the dogma.If it was implicit it would not be an exception. The SSPX website says Fr.Leonard Feeney was wrong since those saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma.

Fr. Leonard Feeney was correct in saying there were no exceptions to the dogmatic teaching. The dogma does not mention exceptions. Neither does Vatican Council II refer to explicit, visible cases of those saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire. It refers to implicit cases known to God only.
There are conditions for offering the Tridentine Rite Mass. Are they being met by the SSPX ?
-Lionel Andrades

NO TRIDENTINE RITE MASS WITHOUT EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/no-tridentine-rite-mass-without-extra.html#links

PRIESTS WHO OFFER TRIDENTINE-RITE AND NOVUS ORDO MASS AGREE THAT WE DO NOT DEFACTO KNOW A SINGLE CASE OF THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE: WE HAVE UNITY ON OUTSIDE THE CHURCH NO SALVATION
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/06/priests-who-offer-tridentine-rite-and.html#links

FR.FRANCOIS LAISNEY OF THE SOCIETY OF ST.PIUS X SAYS THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS HAS EXCEPTIONS. THIS IS HERESY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/frfrancois-laisney-of-society-of-stpius.html#links

SOCIETY OF ST.PIUS X CAUSING CONFUSION ON ECUMENISM
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/society-of-stpius-x-causing-confusion.html

NORMS FOR THE TRIDENTINE RITE MASS VIOLATED ?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/norms-for-tridentine-rite-mass-violated.html

NON CATHOLICS CAN BE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE, BAPTISM OF DESIRE AND IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS- Daphne McLeod, Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice, England
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/non-catholics-can-be-saved-in.html

INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE ARE NOT EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA BUT A BOOK SOLD BY THE SSPX SAYS THEY ARE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/invincible-ignorance-and-baptism-of.html#links

FR. PETER SCOTT, SSPX NEED TO ISSUE A CLARIFICATION: HOW CAN THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE BE EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/fr-peter-scott-sspx-need-to-issue.html

BISHOP ROBERT FINN, BISHOP RAYMOND BOLAND AFFIRM THE ‘RIGORIST INTERPRETATION’ OF EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS : NO DENIAL FROM KANSAS CITY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/bishop-robert-finn-bishop-raymond.html#links

BISHOP EMERITUS RAYMOND J.BOLAND OF KANSAS CITY CORRESPONDS WITH FR.PETER SCOTT OF THE SSPX ON THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/bishop-emeritus-raymond-jboland-of.html#links

SSPX ,CATHOLIC TRADITIONALISTS ARE ANATHEMA ACCORDING TO THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/sspx-catholic-traditionalists-are.html

DAPHNE MCLEOD COMMENT A BOMBSHELL FOR ENGLISH BISHOPS?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/daphne-mcleod-comment-bombshell-for.html

ASSISI INTERFAITH MEETING OCT.27: OLD PROBLEM AMONG TRADITIONALISTS SURFACE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/assisi-interfaith-meeting-oct27-old.html

SSPX CONSIDERS THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE AS DE FACTO KNOWN TO US : DISCERNING LIBERALS MUST BE LAUGHING UP THEIR SLEEVE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/sspx-considers-those-saved-in_24.html

SSPX CONSIDERS THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE AS EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS THIS IS HERESY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/sspx-considers-those-saved-in.html

SSPX IN HERESY CALLS ATTENTION TO HERESY AT ASSISI
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/sspx-in-heresy-calls-attention-to.html#links

SSPX CLARIFY FOR US WHAT IS YOUR DOCTRINAL POSITION ON THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/sspx-clarify-for-us-what-is-your.html#links

ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE CALLED "TO PREACH" THE RIGORIST INTERPRETATION OF "EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS"
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/archbishop-marcel-lefebvre-called-to.html#links

SSPX CLARIFY FOR US WHAT IS YOUR DOCTRINAL POSITION ON THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/sspx-clarify-for-us-what-is-your.html#links

Michael Voris Hits the Jackpot…that is, “the dogma”- Brother André Marie MICM :RealCatholicTV affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/michael-voris-hits-jackpotthat-is-dogma.html#links

CATHOLIC LAY PROFESSOR AT UNIVERSITA EUROPA DI ROMA AFFIRMS DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/catholic-lay-professor-at-universita.html

LEGIONARY OF CHRIST PRIEST FR.RAFAEL PASCUAL AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/legionary-of-christ-priest-frrafael.html

FR.TULLIO ROTONDO AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/08/frtullio-rotondo-affirms-cantate-domino.html#links

CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS IS DE FIDE AND NOT CONTRADICTED BY VATICAN COUNCIL II- Fr. Nevus Marcello O.P
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/cantate-domino-council-of-florence-on.html

BRAZILIAN PRIEST SAYS VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/brazilian-priest-says-vatican-council.html#links

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CHRISTIAN UNITY INDICATES POPES, SAINTS IN HERESY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/pontifical-council-for-christian-unity.html

Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity claims Pope Pius XII condemned the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus :suggests those in invincible ignorance are explicitly known to us and so contradicts the dogma
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/pontifical-council-for-promoting.html

Vatican website for clergy promotes 'theology of religions', Kung and Knitter : claims Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for the same interpretation of the dogma as the popes and saints
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/vatican-webste-for-clergy-promotes.html

CATHOLIC PRIESTS IN ROME AGREE WITH FR.LEONARD FEENEY: THERE IS NO BAPTISM OF DESIRE THAT WE CAN KNOW OF
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/08/catholic-priests-in-rome-agree-with.html#links

CATHOLIC HERALD, U.K: IS IT STILL CATHOLIC?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/catholic-herald-uk-is-it-still-catholic.html

ANGELICUM UNIVERSITY IS CHURNING OUT THEOLOGY DEGREES FOR THOSE WHO SAY FR.LEONARD FEENEY WAS EXCOMMUNICATED FOR REJECTING THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/angelicum-university-is-churning-out.html

SSPX BISHOPS, PRIESTS REJECT EX CATHEDRA DOGMA OFFICIALY, OFFER MASS: NO CONTRADICTION FROM BISHOP BERNARD FELLAY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/06/sspx-bishops-priests-reject-ex-cathedra.html

BISHOP BERNARD FELLAY AFFIRMS RIGORIST INTERPRETATION OF EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS : CONFUSION ON SEDEVANTIST WEBSITE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/09/bishop-bernard-fellay-affirms-rigorist.html

CDF, VATICAN, SSPX, MOST HOLY FAMILY MONASTERY IN TENSION OVER STRAWMAN
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/09/cdf-vatican-sspx-most-holy-family.html

ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE HAD AFFIRMED THE RIGORIST INTERPRETATION OF THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/09/archbishop-marcel-lefebvre-had-affirmed.html

SSPX SUPERIOR CONFIRMS HERESY

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/09/tridentine-rite-priests-in-rome-using.html

FR.FRANCOIS LAISNEY OF THE SOCIETY OF ST.PIUS X SAYS THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS HAS EXCEPTIONS. THIS IS HERESY

A reader of this blog has read the Three Errors of Fr.Feeney article on the SSPX website. He does not see evidence of Fr. Francois Laisney of the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX)  making exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Here is the link of Fr.Feeney and Catholic Doctrine from the SSPX website.http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/feeneyism/fr_feeney_catholic_doctrine.htm

Fr. Francois Laisney says :
His teaching was then condemned by the Holy Office in 1949, and he himself was excommunicated in 1953.
Nowhere does the Letter state that Fr.Leonard Feeney was 'condemned' or that he was excommunicated for heresy. This is the propaganda of the liberal secular media. 
The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 supported Fr.Leonard Feeney when it mentioned ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible teaching’. The dogma indicates that every non Catholic in Boston and the rest of the world needs to convert into the Church to avoid the fires of Hell.(Cantate Domino, Council of Florence etc).So Fr.Leonard Feeney was correct in saying every one needs to be a visible member of the Church and there are no exceptions. The dogma does not mention exceptions and it is an infallible teaching.Fr.Francois Laisney implies that there are exceptions to the dogma and so Fr.Leonard Feeney was in errors.
Fr.Laisney is contradicting the dogma, the Church Councils, the Church Fathers, the saints, the popes and ‘the saintly Pope Pius XII’. They all held the centuries-old interpretation of the dogma. The Letter of the Holy Office referred to the dogma so Pope Pius XII held the same interpretation of the dogma as Fr. Leonard Feeney.

Fr. Francois Laisney is also contradicting Vatican Council II which says all need to enter the Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.(LG 14, AG 7).

He would be implying that Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance) is an exception to the dogma. Since for him, invincible ignorance is an exception to the dogma.

For invincible ignorance to be an exception to the dogma it would have to be explicit i.e these cases would have to be be visible and known. So it means that LG 16 refers to explicitly known cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance.

The text of LG 16 however does not make this claim.Those saved in invincible ignorance are always implicit for us and so are  not an exception to the dogma.There are no exceptions to the dogma in Vatican Council II or the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

The dogma says that every one needs to convert into the Church. They convert into the Church we know through the  baptism of water given to adults with Catholic Faith. So every one on earth needs Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation and there are no known exceptions. The ordinary way of salvation is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water. The ordinary means of salvation is not invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire.

To say that everyone needs the baptism of water for salvation would be an error for Fr.Francois Laisney.
ERROR I: Misrepresentation of the Dogma, "Outside the Church There Is No Salvation"

The first error of those who take their doctrine from Rev. Fr. Leonard Feeney, commonly known as "Feeneyites," is that they misrepresent the dogma, "Outside the [Catholic] Church there is no salvation." The Feeneyites misrepresent this as, "Without baptism of water there is no salvation."
http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/feeneyism/three_errors_of_feeneyites.htm
Also there are factual errors. On the website of Fr. Leonard Feeney’s community on Manchester, USA is a definition of the baptism of desire. So they have not rejected implicit baptism of desire as he claims. They definitely do not accept an explicitly known baptism of desire. In this sense there is no baptism of desire (which contradicts the dogma).
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/frleonard-feeneys-communities-have.html#links

So Fr. Francois Laisney is also causing confusion on ecumenism. He would be implying that the Christians who participated at the inter faith meeting in Assisi last month could possibly be saved with the baptism of desire. This is a rejection of the dogma and Vatican Council II.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/society-of-stpius-x-causing-confusion.html

The ordinary means of salvation is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water and there are no known exceptions.
It is heresy on the part of Fr. Francois Laisney to say that the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus has exceptions..-Lionel Andrades