Saturday, January 7, 2012

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church why did Cardial Joseph Ratzinger not mention that the baptism of desire is not a defacto exception to the dogma outside the church no salvation nor to Vatican Council II ?

CCC 847-848 does not belong under the Section outside the church there is no salvation.

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) under the sub heading Outside the Church No Salvation (CCC 846 ) (1) why is it not said that those saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire are not defacto exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus? They are unknown to us.So in reality it is not an issue.In a way it is irrelevant.

Those saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire are in a sense irrelevant to the dogma outside the church thre is no salvation. (2)

So what if all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church? It does not contradict the dogma which says everyone needs to convert into the Church to avoid the fires of Hell.(Cantate Domino, Council of Florence).

It does not even contradict Vatican Council II (LG 14,AG 7) (3) which says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.

The Catechism could have just said directly that every one with no exception on earth needs Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation( from Hell) and the baptism of desire etc are not defacto exceptions to the dogma. Catholics however assume that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicitly known to us.The Catechism lends itself to this error.

CCC 845 (4) affirms the dogma outside the church there is no salvation yet it is placed in the Catechism above the sub heading.

Those who know about Jesus and the Church and yet do not enter and those saved in invincible ignorance are known only to God.So why mention it?

Those who ‘know’ ,are mentioned, since it is assumed wrongly that those saved in invincible ignorance , are known to us humans ?

If every one with no exception needs to enter the Catholic Church as the dogma outside the church there is no salvation states , then why mention only those who ‘know’? Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger could have assumed that those saved in invincible ignorance are known to us, so it’s an exception!? Hence only those who ‘know’ need to enter the Church.

Vatican Council II and the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 does not say that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are exceptions to the dogma.Neither is it said that these cases are explicilty known to us.So why should CCC 845 be placed above the sub-heading and CCC 846 below it?

Why is CCC 847-848 (5) on invincible ignorance is placed below the sub heading outside the Church there is no salvation? It is irrelevant to the dogma or the subject.Those saved in invicible ignorance are not visibly known to us.

Similarly CCC 1257 (6) says ‘ Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.’ Once again we can see the error. Since those saved with the baptism of desire are assumed to be known to us it is said the baptism of water is necessary only to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have the means to receive the Sacrament.

One may ask when we do not know any of these cases, either way, why mention it ? It is mentioned since the Catechism cannot sate that every one with no exception needs the baptism of water for salvation .It cannot mention this traditional truth since it assumes that those saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are explicitly known to us and so it contradicts the dogma outside the church there is no salvation.

INDIFFERENTISM

To imply that the baptism of desire is visibly known to us and so is a defacto exception to the dogma is indifferentism. It is assuming that there are at present non Catholics on earth, defacto known to us, who are saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire and so they are defacto exceptions to a defined dogma, which Pope Pius XII called an ‘infallible’ teaching (7)

Pope Pius XII condemed indifferentism.Indifferentism is also assuming those saved with the baptism of desire are known to us and so are an exception to the dogma.Indifferentism says there are known, defacto, in- reality cases of non Catholics in other religions who are saved in their religion, so they do not have to enter the Catholic Church with the baptism of water for salvation. Different religions can be defacto paths to salvation.

If in principle, as a concept, we say that a person can be saved in another religion through Jesus and the Church we do not mean that these cases are defacto known to us. If they are defacto not known to us then they are irrelevant to the dogma. Since it is considered that invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicitly known to us it means non Catholics are saved de facto in their religion in the present times. This is indifferentism.

Is this the very same syncretism against which Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger cautions us in Dominus Iesus and the CDF Notification on Fr.Jacques Dupuis S.J. ?

CCC 845 could be included in the Section Outside the Church there is no Salvation.CCC 847-848 does not belong there .

The Church accepts that a non Cathoilc can be saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire but it is not an exception to the dogma or Vatican Council II.
-Lionel Andrades


1.

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

2.


3.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, Himself a man, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:45), "neither is there salvation in any other" (Acts 4:12). Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.

4.

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

5.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

6.

VI. THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

7.