Thursday, June 26, 2014

I talk in terms of visible and invisible only because Catholics in general are unaware that they are using these terms

Even if the Holy Office letter made a factual mistake, who cares?
Lionel:
So it is an error for the Holy  Office 1949 to claim there are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It is important to note this. 
 If the Code of Canon Law can be modified and/or amended, so can the Holy Office Letter. 
 Lionel:
There is factual misinformation in the Letter. 
In fact, the Second Vatican Council dropped the "in voto" phrase used by the Holy Office, which carries less weight than the Holy Office's condemnation of Galileo.
In any case, the Holy Office letter never states that salvation is "visible" to us. 
 Lionel:
Any one who says there are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus is saying that salvation is "visible" for us.Think on this!
Whether it even implies such or not is a matter of debate;
 Lionel:
When it says there are exceptions to the interpretation of the dogma by Fr.Leonard Feeney it is inferring that there are some known exceptions. An exception would have to be a person who exists and is different. He would have to be someone visible. Otherwise how can he be an exception? 
you think that it does, but I am not so convinced. Either way, the Letter's appeal to the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church and to the Council of Trent, in particular, would seem to *imply* that it is to be read in light of those two Sources of Truth and not the other way around! So, seen in that light, the Council of Trent is absolutely clear: 
 Lionel:
The issue is are there any exceptions to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney ?. 
 
The eternal Salvation of anyone, Catholic or otherwise, is NOT visible. Period.
 Lionel:
Then how can the baptism of desire be an exception, for you?
 
 

The Catholic Church is certainly a visible entity, as there is a Bishop of Rome with Cardinals, Bishops, priests, etc., as well as a baptized laity, some of whom attend Mass regularly, but such does not mean that large scores of those folks (me and you included) are going to go to Heaven. In fact, the exact opposite may be true, and Heaven may be sparsely populated at best.
 Lionel:
I talk in terms of visible and invisible only because Catholics in general are unaware that they are using these terms. They say there are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This means there are known cases in 2014,for them.
-Lionel Andrades

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