God having taught for centuries that no one can go to Heaven except with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water, now makes a U-turn?
George:
Once again as you did numerous times on the No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church forum you ignore the point that I was making that no one can tell God what he will do in regards to how he handles personal judgement and Salvation.
Once again as you did numerous times on the No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church forum you ignore the point that I was making that no one can tell God what he will do in regards to how he handles personal judgement and Salvation.
Lionel:
Look at it from another angle. You cannot tell God ( you cannot judge) that God having taught for centuries that no one can go to Heaven except with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water, now makes a U-turn ?.
God 'handles personal judgement and salvation' and through the Catholic Church he tells us how he will judge.
Look at it from another angle. You cannot tell God ( you cannot judge) that God having taught for centuries that no one can go to Heaven except with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water, now makes a U-turn ?.
God 'handles personal judgement and salvation' and through the Catholic Church he tells us how he will judge.
George:
When you make a defacto statement that..."If any one is saved without the baptism of water ( with the baptism of desire etc) then God will send him back to earth to be baptized with water"Lionel:
I am making this in the context of
1) The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are not visible to us and so are irrelevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
2.It is possible for a person to be saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance.This is accepted hypothetically and not as a defacto, known reality.It can only be theoretical.It can never be objective.It is objective only to God.
3.Since the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257 says God is not limited to the Sacraments, it is referring to a theoretical, hypothetical case. In the sense, God being God he can do anything.
VI. THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM
1257 The Lord himself
affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands
his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize
them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the
Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this
sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism
that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to
neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be
baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the
sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments. -Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257
CCC 1257 is not referring to a defacto case. If it was referring to a defacto case it would contradict itself.Since CCC 1257 also says that the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water.So this reference to God not being limited to the Sacraments is de jure and not defacto.
However then the issue is even if it is de jure( in principle, in theory, in faith) it would still contradict the dogmatic teaching in principle.
So if that line in the Catechism is not wrong, then the only way I can explain it, is as saying God will send these persons who are there without the baptism of water and who are not going to Hell- back to earth to be baptised.
At least this is what the saints experienced and this is not a personal opinion.
-Lionel Andrades
Either way, with or without the Sacraments the person would not be alive on earth, and so would not be an exception to all needing the baptism of water
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/either-way-with-or-without-sacraments.html#links
 | ||||
| ||||
Posts
No comments:
Post a Comment