The resources you have provided for extra ecclesiam nulla salus seem only for sedevacantists or traditionalists who interpret Vatican Council with an irrational premise, which results in a break with Tradition.
Please do not place me in any of these groups.
For me the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are not exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since there are no such cases known in 2014.Period. It is as simple as that.
Secondly, no magisterial document before the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 implies that these cases are visible to us.This error is made in the Letter of the Holy Office and then repeated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1257-1260).
Even Vatican Council II does not state that invincible ignorance (LG 16) is a known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or that these cases are known to us, personally. We cannot meet any such person on the streets(saved with the baptism of desire or about to be saved as such) yet the traditionalists infer that these cases are known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So for me LG 16,UR 3, NA 2 etc do not refer to explicit cases in 2014 and so they are not exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Neither are they exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 which says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation.
So it is possible to accept the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the resources you have provided and it is also possible to accept the dogma in agreement with Vatican Council II (AG 7).
Vatican Council II without the premise of being able to see the dead saved in invincible ignorance, a ray of the Truth (NA 2), elements of sanctification and grace (LG 6), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3) is TRADITIONAL on other religions and Christian communities
Any document which does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the Church Councils, popes , saints and Fr. Leonard Feeney is traditional on other religions and Christian communities.
Non catholics need faith and baptism for salvation (AG 7) and Christians need Catholic Faith which include the Sacraments,the Church teachings on faith and morals and interpretation of the Scriptures (AG 7).
Vatican Council II affirms extra ecclesiam nulla salus for me.
Please do not place me in any of these groups.
For me the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are not exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since there are no such cases known in 2014.Period. It is as simple as that.
Secondly, no magisterial document before the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 implies that these cases are visible to us.This error is made in the Letter of the Holy Office and then repeated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1257-1260).
Even Vatican Council II does not state that invincible ignorance (LG 16) is a known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or that these cases are known to us, personally. We cannot meet any such person on the streets(saved with the baptism of desire or about to be saved as such) yet the traditionalists infer that these cases are known exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So for me LG 16,UR 3, NA 2 etc do not refer to explicit cases in 2014 and so they are not exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Neither are they exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 which says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation.
So it is possible to accept the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the resources you have provided and it is also possible to accept the dogma in agreement with Vatican Council II (AG 7).
Vatican Council II without the premise of being able to see the dead saved in invincible ignorance, a ray of the Truth (NA 2), elements of sanctification and grace (LG 6), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3) is TRADITIONAL on other religions and Christian communities
Any document which does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the Church Councils, popes , saints and Fr. Leonard Feeney is traditional on other religions and Christian communities.
Non catholics need faith and baptism for salvation (AG 7) and Christians need Catholic Faith which include the Sacraments,the Church teachings on faith and morals and interpretation of the Scriptures (AG 7).
Vatican Council II affirms extra ecclesiam nulla salus for me.
-Lionel Andrades
Posts
