I have been sent a Mini paper on Lumen Gentium 16.-L.A
Mini-Paper on
Lumen Gentium 16
How is it possible for people to be saved without hearing the Gospel?
Session II of the Council of Florence (Feb. 4, 1442) states:
It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church's sacraments contribute to salvation…and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he
has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church.
So according to the Council of Florence it is not possible for people (i.e., pagans, Jews, heretics, schismatics) to be saved unless they are joined to the catholic church before the
end of their lives.
Lionel: Yes even Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7) has the same message. It says faith and salvation is necessary for all. We know most people die without Catholic Faith and the baptism of water and so they are on the way to Hell.
The Church Councils, popes, saints, Fr.Leonard Feeney and the St.Benedict Center taught that all with no exception in the present times need to be formal members of the Church for salvation, they need faith and baptism.
It was Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani and Cardinal Richard Cushing who came with a new doctrine. They said all do not need to enter the Church but only those who know about the Catholic Church. Those who are saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.In other words those who are saved as such are known and visible to us in the present times.Since they are known they become exceptions to the centuries old interpretation of the dogma according to the saints including St.Maximillian Kolbe.
This is irrational. It is not traditional and heretical.
Cardinal Cushing and the Jesuits brought this confusion into Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14).
We do not know any one saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) in 2015.So LG 16 is not an exception to the traditional interpretation of the dogma and the parts of AG 7 and LG 14 which support the dogma.
So a person who has absolutely no connection to the Catholic Church is
damned.
Lionel:
Yes according to the Bible, the traditional teachings of the Church and Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14).
Yet, this raises an important question: Is it possible to be invisibly linked to the Catholic Church? The answer is a resounding— Yes.
Lionel:
Yes and this would be a hypothetical case. So it would not be an exception to the traditional teaching which says all in the present times need to be formal members of the Church.
The Church does not require
formal visible communion to be joined to her, yet it reiterates, “that all salvation comes
from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body…” (
CCC, 846).
Lionel:
Even though we agree that all salvation comes from Christ and his Church all need to be formal members of the Church is a de fide teaching. There are no known exceptions in 2015 to this teaching.
The Second Vatican Council II in Lumen Gentium 16 responded:
Since the Savior wills all men to be saved (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Those who,through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience--those too may achieve eternal salvation (19).
Lumen Gentium
Lionel:
Yes they can be saved.
However it should not be assumed that these cases are exceptions to the dogma because they are known in personsal cases. This was the error of the Marchetti letter.
There is no precedent before 1949 in Church documents where is is said that there are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Neither Mystici Corporis, Quanta Cura or the Council of Trent state that those saved with implicit desire etc are visible to us or that those saved with implicit desire cannot also receive the baptism of water.
presents several conditions by which people may be saved without hearing and knowing the Gospel or Christ’s Church: (1) through no fault of their own (e.g., inadequate proclamation of the Gospel); (2) who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart; and (3) moved by grace, try in their actions to do [God’s] will (cf. CCC , 847).
Lionel:
We can hope that people are saved as such. However they will be saved in these conditions followed by the baptism of water. In Heaven there are only Catholics who are there with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water and without mortal sin on their soul.
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Blessed John Paul II responds to the same question in
Redemptoris Missio:
It is necessary to keep these two truths together, namely, the real possibility of salvation in Christ for all mankind and the necessity of the Church for salvation…Salvation, which always remains a gift of the Holy Spirit, requires man's cooperation, both to save himself and to save others…[And] since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all….
For such people (i.e., those that do not have the opportunity to know or accept the Gospel or enter the Church) salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation….
[Thus] we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in this Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God (RM, 10).
The above quotes from the legitimate authority of the Catholic Church (i.e., the Council of Florence, Lumen Gentium, Blessed John Paul II) clearly demonstrate a development of doctrine in this area, which if space permitted should also include a review of St. Thomas Aquinas thought of obtaining salvation through the desire of receiving it (cf. Summa III.73.3) and the Council of Trent’s teaching that the sacraments of the New Law are necessary for salvation or a desire for them (cf. Ses. VII, Can. 4).
Yet, if I would stop here, I would be negligent of the Church’s teaching on how people are saved without hearing the Gospel.
Lionel:
We must remember that for Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger there was known salvation outside the Church, he believed there were visible exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
We can see this in CCC 1257.It follows the pattern of the Letter of the Holy Office.In the first part of the Marchetti letter we have the orthodox teaching which supports Fr.Leonard Feeney. In the second part it is said there are known exceptions. So it contradicts the first part which is traditional ( no exceptions).
CCC 1257 says the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water and it also says God is not limited to the Sacraments. This is contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction. How can you say every one needs to enter the Church with no exceptions but some do not! This was the irrational, non tradtional and heretical teaching in the Marchetti Letter.
-Lionel Andrades
Lumen Gentium 16 also clearly warns,“But very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasoning’s,have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and served the world rather than the Creator (cf. Rom. 1:21 and 25). Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.”
Thus very often, deceived by the Evil One, people are at fault for not hearing or accepting the Gospel, and very often people do not seek God with a sincere heart, and very often
they do not cooperate with grace to do God’s will, and very often there is no
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true desire for God, nor His Church. And even if people are inculpably ignorant, this does not guarantee they are saved—they still have to somehow cooperate with and persevere in the Holy Spirit’s mysterious and loving offer of salvation.
Why is knowing this important for the success of evangelization?
All of us are still sinners (cf. 1 Jn 1:8), and the unrepentant (or unredeemed) sinner reaps sin’s inevitable consequence—“separating oneself from God which literally creates hell…not because God has changed from being a loving God but because the sinner now embodies all that is ungodly…to experience the wrathful abandonment of God is but a self-verification of what one has indeed become—ungodly” (Fr. Thomas Weinandy). This reminds us that, though we are not to despair over someone’s salvation, the possibility of many people very often becoming ungodly and thus eternally separating themselves from God is all too real. One person experiencing eternal condemnation is one too many.
Why is this important? It’s of utmost importance because evangelization will not be successful without the correct motivation, which comes from a correct understanding of reality. The Councils and documents of the Church, which have provided primarily positive motivation since Vatican II, have unfortunately been misinterpreted and used as an excuse to the detriment of evangelization. Has there been negligence on the part of the Church, which led to unexpected negative consequences? I answer ‘yes’. Knowledge of Holy Scripture and the complete teaching of the Church (including the last few sentences of
Lumen Gentium 16) have begun to revive the motivation and thus urgency to evangelize. “Hence to procure…the salvation of all these, the Church, mindful of the Lord's command, "preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mk. 16:16) takes zealous care to foster the missions” (LG, 16).
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1 comment:
Is it not ironic that most in the Church teach that all must be baptized with water to be part of the Church militant and yet are most anxious to excuse and dilute this command of Jesus when it comes to the Church triumphant? How has that been working out the last sixty years? Can you say babel and crisis of faith?
George Brenner
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