Tuesday, February 24, 2015

There were four Catholic professors at Boston College who could not say that they could see the visible-dead exceptions. They were expelled by the Jesuits.

That The Bones You Have Crushed May Thrill
 
Anthony:
Lionel, you maintain (if I understand correctly) that exceptions to the “extra ecclesiam” dogma are only theoretical.

Lionel:
The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are possibities known only to God and can only be hypothetical for us. Since they are theoretical possibilities, they cannot be defacto exceptions to all needing Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation in 2015.
_________________________________

But para 1259 of the 1993 Catechism of the Church states: “For catechumens who die before their baptism, their explicit desire…. [to receive baptism]…. assures them the salvation they were not able to receive through the sacrament”.

Lionel:
This is based on the Cardinal Francesco Marchetti error in 1949. He assumed that there was salvation outside the Church, and that there were persons saved without the baptism of water.He did not know of any such case personally, and no magisterial document before 1949 makes this claim.Mystici Corporis and the Council of Trent only refer to these hypothetical cases. They do not say that they are personally known to us or can be personally known to us and so are explicit exceptions to the dogma.

This error was accepted by Cardinal Richard Cushing and the Jesuits in Boston and the confusing lines on being saved in invincible ignorance ( inculpable ignorance) and with implicit desire were inserted in Vatican Council II (AG 14,AG 7).
_______________________________

Now, we know for a fact that there have been many such people….

Lionel:
No we don't know for a fact if God may have saved a person with the baptism of desire or blood followed by the baptism of water, before or after, physical death. This is known only to God.We do not know for example,if St.Emerentiana for instance, received the baptism of water before death. The saints including St. Francis Xavier tell us that some people have returned from the dead only to be baptised with water. We do not know if this happened to her.This would be known for a fact only by God.

__________________________________

So we know for a fact that they are in Heaven, hence they are definite, concrete exceptions to “extra ecclesiam”.
Lionel:
If someone is deceased then that person cannot be seen on earth for him to be an explicit exception to all needing the baptism of water for salvation.The person who is saved in Heaven is not visible to us on earth.So he cannot be relevant to the dogma which says all need to be formal members of the Church for salvation. Non existent persons in our reality, cannot be defacto exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.

This was the original mistake of Cardinal Marchetti
.
__________________________________

But…. You think the Catechism is in error(!).

Lionel:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257 says the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water and it ALSO SAYs God is not limited to the Sacraments. In other words for salvation all need the baptism of water but some do not need it . This is contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction.

The error comes from the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. In the first part of the Letter the dogma is affirmed as it was known for centuries i.e without exeptions. In the second part of the Letter, the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are assumed to be explicit for us in real life, and so are exceptions to the dogma, as mentioned in the first part of the Letter.

So the Magisterium has made an objective mistake. How can deceased people be defacto exceptions to the dogma ?
_____________________________

Also, I looked up your Fr Feeney……. He was excommunicated.
Lionel:
Yes he was excommunicated. He said there is no salvation outside the Church and they wanted him to say that they could see ghosts who were living examples of salvation outside the Church! He refused to do it.
There were also four Catholic professors at Boston College who also could not say that they could see the visible-dead exceptions. They were expelled by the Jesuits.
___________________________
The loonies really have taken over the asylum this time.
No more reading blogs for me now, until Easter, as a Lenten discipline. And for my sanity.
Lionel:
The loony theology says that the baptism of desire is an exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It also says that LG 16( being saved in invincible ignorance) is an excception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
The loony theology implies that these persons, though in reality in Heaven, are visible exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The deceased are exceptions to all needing the bhaptism of water on earth!
This is standard theology in the Catholic Church after 1949.
It comes with the irrational inference of Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani.
I usually refer to it as fantasy theology.
Fr.Leonard Feeney had to put up with it during his time.It has now ossified among the Jesuits and the rest of the Church.
-Lionel Andrades

 

No comments: