Wednesday, March 4, 2015

Cardinal Raymond Burke approved Fr. John Hardon's error

The Real Presence Association has posted on its website an article by Fr.John Hardon s.j, Christ to Catholicism. Part two: Dogmatic Ecclesiology, No Salvation Outside of the Church'. Cardinal Raymond Leo  Burke has approved it.1
 
There are factual errors in the article. The same errors are there in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 issued by Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani.
Like Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani, Fr.John Hardon assumed that being saved with implicit desire ( and without the baptism of water) or in invincible ignorance, were exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, exceptions to the strict interpretation of the dogma.
We now know that those who are saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance, allegedly without the baptism of water, are in Heaven. So how can they be explicit exceptions on earth to the strict interpretation of the dogma, it is asked.
 
Fr.John Hardon also assumed that the Church Fathers and Church documents before 1949 tell us that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma. There is no such magisterial document before 1949. They only refer to persons being saved with implicit desire or in inculpable ignorance. They do not tell us that these cases are known to us.Nor is it said that they are explicit exceptions to the dogma. This has to be inferred- wrongly. Fr.Hardon like Cardinal Marchetti makes this wrong inference in the article.
 
In the recent interview given to Rorate Caeili Cardinal Raymond Burke recommended the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
The Catechism in 1257 says the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water. CCC 1257 also says God is not limited to the Sacraments,.This is contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction. It cannot be said all in 2015 need the baptism of water for salvation but some do not.
 
This confusion comes from the Letter of the Holy Office. The first part of the Letter affirms the traditional interpretation of the dogma which does not mention any exceptions. The second part of the Letter infers that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma. So the second half of the Letter contradicts the first half.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, like the International Theological Commission, assumes that those saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance, refer to objective cases. This is a false premise. Then it is assumed that these persons  now in Heaven, are explicit exceptions to the strict interpretatiion of the dogma. This is a false conclusion.An irrational premise will produce an irrational conclusion.
Fr.John Hardon also used an irrational premise to create an irrational, non traditional conclusion.
This was approved by Cardinal Raymond Burke who probably also uses the false premise, the Marchetti Inference, to reject the traditional interpretation, the strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.For him too the dogma 'developed' in 1949.
-Lionel Andrades
Rome made a mistake in 1949 and Fr.John Hardon did not notice it
 
 
The Catechumen you refer to is a hypothetical case for you and me. So it is not an explicit exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus : Fr.John Hardon too did not notice this
 
 
The Council of Trent, Mystici Corporis no where says that these cases are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus : Rome made a mistake in 1949

4 comments:

Anonymous said...

Lionel, you are failing to read the sentence before those you are emphasizing:

"Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament."

Therefore, for any who have NOT had 'the possibility of asking for this sacrament' its effects may be attained through desire.

Otherwise, you would deny Beatitude to many saints and prophets of the Old Testament, to mention of a few.

Thus, there is no contradiction in what was asserted by Cardinal Burke and Fr. Hardon and others.

Catholic Mission said...

Lionel, you are failing to read the sentence before those you are emphasizing:

"Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament."
Lionel:
Baptism is necessary for every one.
All need faith and baptism says Vatican Council II (AG 7).
The Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water says the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257.
If there is an exception, it would be known only to God.
So why mention something which is unknown to us? This was the error in 1949.
_______________

Therefore, for any who have NOT had 'the possibility of asking for this sacrament' its effects may be attained through desire.
Lionel.
We do not and cannot know of any such case.
So why was it mentioned in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.
Why was it inferred to be an exception to the traditional interpretation of the dogma?
The fault was with Cardinal Francesco Marchetti.
He was implying that these cases were examples of known salvation outside the Church and so Fr. Leonard Feeney was wrong.
In other words he personally knew of persons saved as such and so they were contradictions to the dogma.
Why mention something which is hypothetical and then also suggest that this case was saved without the baptism of water? How would Cardinal Marchetti know ?
___________________

Otherwise, you would deny Beatitude to many saints and prophets of the Old Testament, to mention of a few.
Lionel:
The prophets and saints of the Old Testament who were saved, went to Heaven only after the Resurrection of the awaited Jewish Messiah. Until that time they had to wait in Abraham's Bosom.
__________________________

Catholic Mission said...

Anonymous:
Thus, there is no contradiction in what was asserted by Cardinal Burke and Fr. Hardon and others.

Lionel:
Like Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani, Fr.John Hardon assumed that being saved with implicit desire ( and without the baptism of water) or in invincible ignorance, were exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, exceptions to the strict interpretation of the dogma.This is accepted by Cardinal Raymond Burke.

We now know that those who are saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance, allegedly without the baptism of water, are in Heaven. So how can they be explicit exceptions on earth to the strict interpretation of the dogma, it is asked.This was a factual mistake made by Cardinal Burke and the late Fr.John Hardon.

Fr.John Hardon also assumed that the Church Fathers and Church documents before 1949 tell us that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma. There is no such magisterial document before 1949. They only refer to persons being saved with implicit desire or in inculpable ignorance. They do not tell us that these cases are known to us.Nor is it said that they are explicit exceptions to the dogma. This has to be inferred- wrongly. Fr.Hardon like Cardinal Marchetti makes this wrong inference in the article.

Fr.John Hardon also assumed that the Church Fathers and Church documents before 1949 tell us that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma. There is no such magisterial document before 1949. They only refer to persons being saved with implicit desire or in inculpable ignorance. They do not tell us that these cases are known to us.Nor is it said that they are explicit exceptions to the dogma. This has to be inferred- wrongly. Fr.Hardon like Cardinal Marchetti makes this wrong inference in the article.Cardinal Raymond Burke approved the article.

Catholic Mission said...

Cardinal Raymond Burke approved Fr. John Hardon's error
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/cardinal-raymond-burke-approved-fr-john.html

What was Fr. Hardons error that Cardinal Burke approved?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/what-was-fr-hardons-error-that-cardinal.html

Cardinal Raymond Burke interprets Church documents with an irrational premise and conclusion and offers the Traditional Latin Mass
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/cardinal-raymond-burke-interprets.html

Rome made a mistake in 1949 and Fr.John Hardon did not notice it
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/rome-made-mistake-in-1949-and-frjohn_3.html

The Catechumen you refer to is a hypothetical case for you and me. So it is not an explicit exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus : Fr.John Hardon too did not notice this.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/the-catechuman-you-refer-to-is.html

For Cardinal Raymond Burke these hypothetical cases are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/for-cardinal-raymond-burke-these.html

March for Life 2015 : double standards
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/march-for-life-2015-double-standards.html

March for Life : double standard of participants
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/01/march-for-life-double-standards-of.html

VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/vatican-council-ii-says.html