Thursday, March 5, 2015

For me too Fr.John Hardon was a holy priest and I admire Cardinal Raymond Burke

 
Lionel:
Cardinal Raymond Burke approved Fr. John Hardon's error
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/cardinal-raymond-burke-approved-fr-john.html

BloggerVox Cantoris said...

I am publishing your comment however, Father John Hardon was a holy priest and devoted his life as a true servant of Our Lord Jesus Christ and His people. Raymond Cardinal Burke is a profoundly holy, strong and courageous man; a Canonist of high reputation and integrity another true servant of Our Blessed Lord and a consolation to us.
I only briefly glanced at your link and I do not have time for a deep analysis or rebuttal suffice to say I disagree with you.
Others may choose to challenge your hypothesis and are welcome to do here.
Vox
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BloggerLionel:
For me too Fr.John Hardon was a holy priest and I admire Cardinal Raymond Burke. I have not been able to meet him in Rome.

My report refers to a general oversight in the Catholic Church, an error which is innocent.
I too once upon a time made this same error.

I think the Church needs to identify it, correct it and then move on.
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BloggerVox Cantoris said...
Thank you; truly there seem to have been many errors that even pre-dated the Council that some day need to be clarified but what a debate that would open.

Liturgically, I would even go back to 1951 and start over!

-Lionel Andrades


https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20981956&postID=9146538378469423885&isPopup=true

2 comments:

George Brenner said...


Lionel,

Vox Cantorius is spot on correct. How many years have you been rebuked on your private interpretations? The catechism of the catholic Church is part of VCII and not in contradiction of VCII. You are systematically trying to drag even the most holy of Catholics down with your erroneous conclusions. What is next for you Saint John Paul II when as part of VCII he said in in his encyclical Redemptoris Missio:

"The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation"
Our marching orders are simple in the words of Pope Pius IX in Singulari Quadum: " but, as long as we are on earth, weighed down by this mortal mass which blunts the soul, let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic
teaching, there is "one God, one faith, one baptism" [Eph. 4:5]; it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry" he was talking to ALL Catholics.
This will be my last communication with you until you recant your errors but be assured that you are in my prayers.

George Brenner

Catholic Mission said...

Vox Cantorius is spot on correct. How many years have you been rebuked on your private interpretations?

Lionel:
Sorry they are not private revelations.
I affirm Vatican Council II, except that I do not use the irrational premise and conclusion in the interpretation.
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The catechism of the catholic Church is part of VCII and not in contradiction of VCII.
Lionel:
I interpret the Catechism and Vatican Council II without the false premise and conclusion.
You do not make this distinction.
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You are systematically trying to drag even the most holy of Catholics down with your erroneous conclusions.

Lionel:
I am affirming the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which does not mention any exceptions.

The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 was a break with the dogma and the Syllabus of Errors.

The magisterium accepted this break with Tradition. It was a new doctrine brought into the Catholic Church.

The break was possible because an irrational inference was used.No one identified it.

The same irrtionality is used to interpret Vatican Council II as a break with traditional teaching.

We have a choice.
We can use the irrational premise or avoid.
I assert my choice. I avoid it.
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What is next for you Saint John Paul II when as part of VCII he said in in his encyclical Redemptoris Missio:

Lionel:
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict I have pointed out in many blogposts also used the false premise and conclusion from the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.
We can see its influence in Redemptoris Missio and Dominus Iesus.
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"The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation.
Lionel:
He is adapting to the error in the Letter of the Holy Office.
O.K say we agreed with this specuation, how is this case an explicit exception to the strict interpretation of the dogma in 2015?
And if it is not an exception then why did he have to mention it?
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This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation"
Lionel:
Yes I agree that this person can be saved and this speculative case, would be saved also with the baptism of water.
_______________________

Our marching orders are simple in the words of Pope Pius IX in Singulari Quadum: " but, as long as we are on earth, weighed down by this mortal mass which blunts the soul, let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic
teaching, there is "one God, one faith, one baptism" [Eph. 4:5];
Lionel:
Before 1949 this one faith did not mention any explicit exceptions to the dogma.
____________________

it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry" he was talking to ALL Catholics.
Lionel:
He was also talking to you who accept irrationality and heresy in the name of the Catholic Faith.
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This will be my last communication with you until you recant your errors but be assured that you are in my prayers.
Lionel:
O.K however you are free to communicate with me in future if you wish, even though your position keeps changing on this issue.
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