Cardinal Agostino Vallini and Rome's Auxiliary bishops agree with me : 1
1.The Catholic Church affirms the traditional rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since they do not know of any exceptions.
2.So for Rome in 2015 , there are no exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to the strict, Feeneyite version of the dogma.
3.Those who are saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are not personally known to them.They are not exceptions. They never were. They agree with me!!
I have been e-mailing these blog posts to them. There is no denial from the Rome Vicariate, the Vatican Press Office, Ecclesia Dei. No denials also from the SSPX at Econe,the FSSP or the sedevacantists CMRI.
They are not denying that Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 made a factual mistake. There is no known salvation outside the Church.He did not know of any person saved without being a formal member of the Church. He could not know such a case.
So Fr.Leonard Feeney was magisterial and still is.
There are no exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to the rigorist, Feeneyite traditional version of outside the Church there is no salvation.
This was the position suported by the SSPX in the General Chapter Statement of 2012. This was the doctrinal position rejected by Cardinal Muller since he and the Vatican Curia assumed there are known exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.
Letter of the Holy Office 1949 issued by Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani.
Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely
established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds
obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.
Lionel:
Who 'knows or does not know' can only be known to God. Cardinal Marchetti assumed that those who are saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance are 'known to us'. So he infers that those who are in ignorance are 'known exceptions' to the dogma . He makes the distinction between knowing and not knowing , as being necessary for salvation, when the dogma refers to ALL with no exceptions.
______________________________________
In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).- Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
Those who are saved as such, 'only in desire and longing', the Rome Vicariate, Ecclesia Dei, SSPX, FSSP, CMRI agree, are not physically visible to us, they are not personally known to us, they cannot be personally known to us in the present times.
____________________________
The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
The Rome Vicariate, Ecclesia Dei, SSPX, FSSP, CMRI agree that those 'united to her by desire and longing' are not physically visible to us, they are not personally known to us. So these cases cannot be relevant to the dogma. It cannot be an exception as Marchetti infers. So here he has made a mistake when he states it is not always required that 'he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member'.This is heresy. There is no historical precedent in the Church for this statement. Neither could he know of any particular case which was an exception.While the dogma tells us that God chose to limit salvation to the Sacraments.
____________________________
However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
When he refers to a person 'involved in invincible ignorance' the Vicariate is telling us that there is no such known case in our present times.
'God accepts also an implicit desire', yes, as a possibility, a hypothetical case for us.It would be known only to God.
____________________________
These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.).-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
No where does Mystici Corporis state that there are exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma. It does not state that those saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance are physically visible and personally known in the present times to be exceptions to the dogma.
____________________________
For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.- Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
We cannot know the difference since we do not know of any exceptions.
___________________________
With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire,...-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
He reproves the Rome Vicariate, Ecclesia Dei, SSPX, FSSP and CMRI for agreeing that there are no known exceptions to the dogma.Since those 'united to the Church only by implicit desire ' are not personally known to us, they cannot be personally known to us.He reproves what is common sense.
____________________________
From what has been said it is evident that those things which are proposed in the periodical, fascicle 3, as the genuine teaching
of the Catholic Church are far from being such and are very harmful both to
those within the Church and those without. - Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
They were saying the same thing as the Rome Vicariate, Ecclesia Dei, SSPX, FSSP and CMRI i.e we do not and cannot know of any exception to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.
____________________________
From these declarations which pertain to doctrine, certain conclusions follow which regard discipline and conduct, and which cannot be unknown to those who vigorously defend the necessity by which all are bound' of belonging to the true Church and of submitting to the authority of the Roman Pontiff and of the Bishops "whom the Holy Ghost has placed . . . to rule the Church" (Acts 20:28). -Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
He is saying that the pontiff, Pius XII, was contradicting the popes of the past.
___________________________
Furthermore, it is beyond understanding how a member of a religious Institute, namely Father Feeney, presents himself as a "Defender of the Faith," and at the same time does not hesitate to attack the catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities,...-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
Here he slanders Fr.Leonard Feeney by name.
'Catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities' means teaching that there are known exceptions in the present times (1949) to the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
____________________________
and has not even feared to incur grave sanctions threatened by the sacred canons because of his serious violations of his duties as a religious, a priest, and an ordinary member of the Church.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
Fr.Leonard Feeney could not say that in 1949 there were known exceptions to the dogma.He would not say that there were non Catholics saved outside the Church, a claim also being made by Cardinal Richard Cushing, the Jesuit Provincial and also the Rector at Jesuit Boston College.They allegedly knew of living persons who were in Heaven or going there without 'faith and baptism'(AG 7)!
______________________________
Finally, it is in no wise to be tolerated that certain Catholics shall claim for themselves the right to publish a periodical, for the purpose of spreading theological doctrines, without the permission of competent Church authority, called the "" which is prescribed by the sacred canons.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
An imprimatur would only be given to those who said there were physically visible exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Catholic Church for salvation.
_________________________________
Therefore, let them who in grave peril are ranged against the Church seriously bear in mind that after "Rome has spoken" they cannot be excused even by reasons of good faith. - Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
Rome in 1949 was contradicting the Vicariate in Rome in 2015.The magisterium in 1949 was making an objective mistake. It was inferring that persons in Heaven, who were unknown to them and not physically visible, were known exceptions on earth to the traditional teaching, on all needing Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.Rome in 1949 was also contradicting Rome before 1949.The rupture with Tradition had entered the Church.
___________________________________
Certainly, their bond and duty of obedience toward the Church is much graver than that of those who as yet are related to the Church "only by an unconscious desire." Let them realize that they are children of the Church, lovingly nourished by her with the milk of doctrine and the sacraments, and hence, having heard the clear voice of their Mother, they cannot be excused from culpable ignorance, and therefore to them apply without any restriction that principle: submission to the Catholic Church and to the Sovereign Pontiff is required as necessary for salvation.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
The magisterium was in obvious error and was asking for submission.
So we have a new element added to the on going doctrinal talks. Since it is agreed that Vatican Council II is Feeneyite, it does not contradict the traditional teaching on other religions and ecumenism, this needs to be acknowledged in doctrinal talks.The CDF/Ecclesia Dei can now also open discussion with the CMRI and other sedevancantists.
-Lionel Andrades
1
April 2, 2015
Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.
Lionel:
Who 'knows or does not know' can only be known to God. Cardinal Marchetti assumed that those who are saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance are 'known to us'. So he infers that those who are in ignorance are 'known exceptions' to the dogma . He makes the distinction between knowing and not knowing , as being necessary for salvation, when the dogma refers to ALL with no exceptions.
______________________________________
In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (
Lionel:
Those who are saved as such, 'only in desire and longing', the Rome Vicariate, Ecclesia Dei, SSPX, FSSP, CMRI agree, are not physically visible to us, they are not personally known to us, they cannot be personally known to us in the present times.
____________________________
The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
The Rome Vicariate, Ecclesia Dei, SSPX, FSSP, CMRI agree that those 'united to her by desire and longing' are not physically visible to us, they are not personally known to us. So these cases cannot be relevant to the dogma. It cannot be an exception as Marchetti infers. So here he has made a mistake when he states it is not always required that 'he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member'.This is heresy. There is no historical precedent in the Church for this statement. Neither could he know of any particular case which was an exception.While the dogma tells us that God chose to limit salvation to the Sacraments.
____________________________
However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
When he refers to a person 'involved in invincible ignorance' the Vicariate is telling us that there is no such known case in our present times.
'God accepts also an implicit desire', yes, as a possibility, a hypothetical case for us.It would be known only to God.
____________________________
These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943,
Lionel:
No where does Mystici Corporis state that there are exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma. It does not state that those saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance are physically visible and personally known in the present times to be exceptions to the dogma.
____________________________
For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.- Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
We cannot know the difference since we do not know of any exceptions.
___________________________
With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire,...-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
He reproves the Rome Vicariate, Ecclesia Dei, SSPX, FSSP and CMRI for agreeing that there are no known exceptions to the dogma.Since those 'united to the Church only by implicit desire ' are not personally known to us, they cannot be personally known to us.He reproves what is common sense.
____________________________
From what has been said it is evident that those things which are proposed in the periodical
Lionel:
They were saying the same thing as the Rome Vicariate, Ecclesia Dei, SSPX, FSSP and CMRI i.e we do not and cannot know of any exception to the traditional interpretation of the dogma.
____________________________
From these declarations which pertain to doctrine, certain conclusions follow which regard discipline and conduct, and which cannot be unknown to those who vigorously defend the necessity by which all are bound' of belonging to the true Church and of submitting to the authority of the Roman Pontiff and of the Bishops "whom the Holy Ghost has placed . . . to rule the Church" (Acts 20:28). -Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
He is saying that the pontiff, Pius XII, was contradicting the popes of the past.
___________________________
Furthermore, it is beyond understanding how a member of a religious Institute, namely Father Feeney, presents himself as a "Defender of the Faith," and at the same time does not hesitate to attack the catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities,...-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
Here he slanders Fr.Leonard Feeney by name.
'Catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities' means teaching that there are known exceptions in the present times (1949) to the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
____________________________
and has not even feared to incur grave sanctions threatened by the sacred canons because of his serious violations of his duties as a religious, a priest, and an ordinary member of the Church.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
Fr.Leonard Feeney could not say that in 1949 there were known exceptions to the dogma.He would not say that there were non Catholics saved outside the Church, a claim also being made by Cardinal Richard Cushing, the Jesuit Provincial and also the Rector at Jesuit Boston College.They allegedly knew of living persons who were in Heaven or going there without 'faith and baptism'(AG 7)!
______________________________
Finally, it is in no wise to be tolerated that certain Catholics shall claim for themselves the right to publish a periodical, for the purpose of spreading theological doctrines, without the permission of competent Church authority, called the "
Lionel:
An imprimatur would only be given to those who said there were physically visible exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Catholic Church for salvation.
_________________________________
Therefore, let them who in grave peril are ranged against the Church seriously bear in mind that after "Rome has spoken" they cannot be excused even by reasons of good faith. - Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
Rome in 1949 was contradicting the Vicariate in Rome in 2015.The magisterium in 1949 was making an objective mistake. It was inferring that persons in Heaven, who were unknown to them and not physically visible, were known exceptions on earth to the traditional teaching, on all needing Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.Rome in 1949 was also contradicting Rome before 1949.The rupture with Tradition had entered the Church.
___________________________________
Certainly, their bond and duty of obedience toward the Church is much graver than that of those who as yet are related to the Church "only by an unconscious desire." Let them realize that they are children of the Church, lovingly nourished by her with the milk of doctrine and the sacraments, and hence, having heard the clear voice of their Mother, they cannot be excused from culpable ignorance, and therefore to them apply without any restriction that principle: submission to the Catholic Church and to the Sovereign Pontiff is required as necessary for salvation.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Lionel:
The magisterium was in obvious error and was asking for submission.
So we have a new element added to the on going doctrinal talks. Since it is agreed that Vatican Council II is Feeneyite, it does not contradict the traditional teaching on other religions and ecumenism, this needs to be acknowledged in doctrinal talks.The CDF/Ecclesia Dei can now also open discussion with the CMRI and other sedevancantists.
-Lionel Andrades
1
April 2, 2015
They all agree with me !
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