Monday, July 13, 2015

In Ecumenism B is not an exception to A. UR 3 does not contradict AG 7

What is your concept of Ecumenism according to Vatican Council 2 ?. Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 say all need 'faith and baptism' .  Orthodox Christians, Protestants and other Christians do not have Catholic Faith. They are not in the Catholic Church.
Here is Ad Gentes .
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II.
If Ad Gentes  7 is referred to as A then there is nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict A.
If Unitatis Redintegratio 3 ( imperfect communion with the Church) is referred to as B, then B does not contradict A since we do not know  any one in 2015 saved 'in imperfect communion with the Church'.I cannot meet any one on the streets of Rome today who has been saved or is going to be saved in imperfect communion with the Church.
Aside from Ad Gentes 7 there are orthodox passages also in other texts of Vatican Council II which call for an ecumenism of return.
Here is an orthodox passage in Unitatis Redintegratio 3
Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life - that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation.-Unitatis Redintegratio 3
The following passage also from UR 3 let us refer to as B.It can be confusing if the invisible-visible, implicit-explicit , in theory-in practise distinction is not made.
For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.-UR 3
B is not an exception to the orthodox passage in Ad Gentes 7 or Unitatis Redintegratio (UR 3).Since B  refers to hypothetical cases for us. If such a case existed in 2015 it would only be known to God. This person would be invisible for us.
So there is nothing in UR 3 to contradict Ad Gentes 7( all need faith and baptism) , the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441) or the orthodox passage in Unitatis Redintegratio itself.
There are no exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to the traditional teaching on an ecumenism of return.
There would be an exception only if you considered B as explicit and so an exception to A.If B is not considered hypothetical but objective and seen in the flesh in 2015, then it seems an exception to the orthodox passages.Then it is a rejection of an ecumenism of return.
If you say B is an exception to A your assuming there are exceptions, there are explicit cases.They are known, objective seen in the flesh in 2015, of Christians saved in imperfect communion with the Church.They are Christians saved without being formal members of the Catholic Church.This would be fantasy.It would be irrational.
For me B is not an exception to A. B refers to invisible cases.If they existed they would be known only  to God. So the ecumenism of Vatican Council II is stil traditional for me. The ecclesiology on ecumenism has not changed with the Council.
In whatever way others may interpret Vatican Council II, for me, AG 7 refers to an ecumenism of return.This view is supported by other orthodox passages in UR 3. My view is rational. It does not infer that I can see or personally know in 2015 persons saved; who are now in Heaven without  Catholic Faith. I cannot see or meet anyone today who is in Heaven without  the Sacraments and the faith and moral teachings of the Catholic Church.
The B is an exception to A view is irrational. We cannot see the dead.
All Orthodox Christians, Protestants and other Christians need Catholic Faith (AG 7) to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.
For salvation Pentecostals need to enter the Catholic Church , they need to be formal members of the Church ( AG 7, Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence 1441).This is Vatican Council II and traditional ecumenism.This was the teaching for centuries in the only Church Jesus founded outside of which there is no salvation.
-Lionel Andrades

For you proclaiming the Good News would be with B as an exception to A ?

Bishops Williamson, Pirvanus,Dolan and Sanborn are under no compulsion to say B is an exception to A

So can the Traditional Latin Mass be offered by priests who consider B not an exception to A?

Catholic priests are only allowed to offer Mass if they say B is an exception to A


No comments: