Fr.Stefano Manelli F.I needs to comment on the prophet of Islam and the old ecclesiology being supported by Vatican Council II

Fr.Stefano Manelli F.I could show all concerned that the old ecclesiology is supported by Vatican Council II and is not exclusive to the Traditional Latin Mass.

ECCLESIOLOGY/ OTHER RELIGIONS

He could do this from the positive perspective. He could mention that Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) says all need faith and baptism, for salvation.

This means according to Vatican Council II all Hindus, Buddhists,Jews, Muslims and pagans need to convert into the Catholic Church to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.It means for example, the Prophet Mohammad and the members of the  Muslim religion of his time were oriented to Hell without 'faith and baptism'(AG 7, LG 14). The Quran shows that they knew about Jesus and the Church yet chose to form a new religion.According to Lumen Gentium 14  those who 'know' and do not convert are on the way to Hell.

This is the old ecclesiology but it is also post Vatican Council II teaching.

Fr.Stefano Manelli or his spokesperson could clarify this point of the Catholic Faith for those who use Vatican Council II to teach heresy and irrationality and expect him to do the same.

Vatican Council II supports the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS)  and there are no known exceptions in 2015. There are no known cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire, baptism of blood - and without the baptism of water.

 Similarly there are no known exceptions of non Catholics saved in imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3) , seeds of the Word(AG 11) , a ray of that Truth(NA 2) etc -and without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.

These cases are invisible and not visible, theoretical and hypothetical and not personally or practically seen and verified in 2015.

ECUMENISM

 Similarly when AG7 and LG 14 say all need faith and baptism,this is a reference to Catholic Faith  and the baptism of water.

Protestants, Orthodox Christians, Pentecostals  and Catholics who have joined the Jehovah's Witnesses do not have Catholic Faith, needed for salvation.

So an ecumenism of return is part of the old ecclesiology supported by the text of Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14).

RELIGIOUS LIBERTY

 Dignitatis Humane has not contradicted the  traditional teachings on religious liberty.In a state with a secular Constitution we still have the freedom to affirm AG 7, LG 14  and the dogma EENS.

So all have an obligation to join the one true Church outside of which there is no salvation.

There is no separation of Church and State  for a Catholic since all need to be Catholic, to go to Heaven and avoid Hell, according to Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14).

This is the political position of a Catholic after Vatican Council II.

 So Catholics, for example, would be opposed to the Islamic ideology and religion since for them all Muslims are oriented to Hell, without 'faith and baptism' according to Vatican Council II .

This is the post Vatican Council II ecclesiology that a Catholic holds  supported by Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) in which LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc  refer to theoretical possibilities followed by the baptism of water in the Catholic Church. This is the dogmatic EENS teachings and also that of AG 7, LG 14, Vatican Council II.

So at next month's meeting in Rome of the Superiors of the Franciscans of the Immaculate world wide, it must be asked  for permission to offer the old and new Mass with the old ecclesiology supported by Vatican Council II.

This is the positive aspect of this issue with reference to Vatican Council II.

 On the negative side the new Salesian Apostolic Commissioner of the Franciscans of the Immaculate  must stop interpreting LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc  as being known and concrete instead  of abstract and unknown in 2015. This has to be rejected as irrational and non traditional.Also assuming explicit, objective  for us LG 16, LG 8 etc as being exceptions to EENS and the old ecclesiology  - must be considered fantasy theology.How can a theology be created over non existent cases in our reality? This is the New Theology used to reject EENS, when there are no visible cases  of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire ,the baptism of blood  or the Vatican Council II 'baptisms', LG 16 etc.

This is non traditional and heretical and the Apostolic Commissioner must be informed about it.How can he expects the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate to accept all this at their meeting next month?.

-Lionel Andrades