Wednesday, December 2, 2015

They are appealing to Pope Francis since he also rejects the dogma EENS and inteprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism, the same as CMTV and the liberal English bishops.

Traditional Catholics say the prayer is theologically accurate

The prayer is not theologically correct. Traditional Catholics, like conservative Catholics and Church Militant TV(CMTV) use Cushingism as a theology and they reject Feeneyism.
Feeneyism says there are no exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). Cushingism says there are known exceptions and they include being saved with the baptism of desire and blood or in invincible ignorance, all without the baptism of water, in the Catholic Church. Michael Voris and Ryan Fitzgerald at CMTV are Cushingites.
Cushingism is irrational since there cannot be any known case of a non Catholic saved without the baptism of desire in the Catholic Church in the present times (2015). So Feeneyism is still the traditional and rational theology.It is also a rational way to interpret Vatican Council II.With Cushingism LG 16 ( invincible ignorance) contradicts the dogma EENS with Feeneyism it does not.

LONDON ( - The Good Friday prayer for Jews in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite needs to be toned down and made more like the Ordinary Form's prayer. That's the gist of a resolution sent to the Vatican recently by the bishops of England and Wales.
Lionel: The bishops of England reject the dogma EENS which says all Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid the fires of Hell ( Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence 1441).
Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) is in agreement with Cantate Domino.All Jews need faith and baptism for salvation.
The bishops are appealing to Pope Francis since the pope also rejects the dogma EENS and inteprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism, the same as CMTV and the liberal English bishops.
The Extraordinary Form version of the prayer in question — which was already revised and somewhat softened by Pope Benedict in 2008 — reads: "Let us also pray for the Jews: that our God and Lord may illuminate their hearts, that they acknowledge Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men."
The English and Welsh bishops want the prayer to be more like that recited in the Ordinary Form, in which it is said: "Let us pray for the Jewish people, the first to hear the Word of God, that they may continue to grow in the love of His name and in faithfulness to His covenant."
Archbishop Kevin McDonald of Southwark, England, chairman of the English and Welsh bishops' committee for Catholic-Jewish relations, states:
The 1970 Prayer, which is now used throughout the Church, is basically a prayer that the Jewish people would continue to grow in the love of God's name and in faithfulness of His Covenant, a Covenant which — as St. John Paul II made clear in 1980 — has not been revoked. By contrast the Prayer produced in 2008 for use in the Extraordinary Form of the liturgy reverted to being a prayer for the conversion of Jews to Christianity.
This caused great upset and confusion in the Jewish community since the Church seemed to be giving inconsistent messages.
The Bishops of England and Wales have now added their voice to that of German Bishops who have asked for the Prayer in the Extraordinary Form to be changed. Such a change would be important both for giving clarity and consistency to Catholic teaching and for helping to progress Catholic-Jewish dialogue.
Lionel: According to Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) Jews need to convert with 'faith and baptism' for salvation. Catholics are the new people of God, the Chosen People, the Elect (Nostra Aetate 4,Vatican Council II).Vatican Council II is saying outside the Church there is no salvation, outside Catholic Faith with the baptism of water there is no salvation.
He suggests that the Ordinary Form's prayer is more reflective of "Nostra Aetate," the Second Vatican Council's document on non-Christian faiths. That document states, "Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures."
Lionel: They are not rejected or accursed while they are on earth.If they convert they can also go to Heaven and avoid Hell.

 Further, it adds that "the Church, mindful of the patrimony She shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone."
Lionel:The Jewish Left whom the English bishops always support, consider Catholic beliefs and forms of worship inadequate and demand they be changed.The demand is made with threats.There are threats  of legal action with anti-Semitic laws which they have imposed on the world and is often misued and used as a weapon creating anti Jewish sentiments against Jews in general, innocent Jews.Liberal rabbis, in Italy have visited Vatican offices and pontifical universities, it has been reported in the daily newspapers here.These pro Zionist and reformed Judaism rabbis told Vatican offices to change Church teaching. There were also threats of war with Israel supported by the international Jewry over the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews it was reported.
The Jewish Left, who are opposed by many Jewish rabbis, now also expect the Church to support homosexuality, abortion and other things pro-Satan.Over time the English bishops could support Satan on these issues.They could  appeal to the pope to accept them too.
While there isn't any tension between those passages and the Extraordinary Form's prayer, those seem to be the messages of "Nostra Aetate" that Abp. McDonald thinks are more honored in the Ordinary Form.
In response to the bishops' plea, traditional Catholics in the United Kingdom maintain that the Extraordinary Form's prayer is perfectly consistent with the Church's theology and with Scripture.
Lionel: 'the Extraordinary Form's prayer is perfectly consistent with the Church's theology and with Scripture.'False.
Related image
 Joseph Shaw uses Cushingism as a theology. This is a break with the traditional theology of the Church before the 1949 Boston case.It is a break with John 3:5 and Mark 16:16.
Archbishop Richard Cushing, the archbishop of Boston was in heresy for rejecting the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since:
1) There were no known cases of persons saved in 1949 outside the Church.
2)There were no known cases of the baptism of desire or blood, without the baptism of water, in the 1940's or during his  life time.
3) No Church document before 1949 stated that the baptism of desire referred to an explicit case, objectively visible.
4) The Council of Trent does not state that 'the desire thereof' refers to an explicit case. This had to be inferred, wrongly, by theologians in the 1940's.
5) St.Thomas Aquinas does not say that the man in the forest saved in invincible ignorance, refers to a case personally known . So how could this case be relevant to the strict interpretation of the dogma? It had to be wrongly inferred that this case of the man in the forest was objective or could be objective in the present times. This had to be inferred wrongly by the Jesuit theologians to justify Cushingism as a theology.
So the Archbishop of Boston and the Jesuits position in the 1940's was irrational, heretical and an innovation.With the support of the Magsterium they misused their power by excommunicating Fr. Leonard Feeney and dismissing the Catholic professors at Boston College who held the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. They also did not lift the excommunication of Fr.Leonard Feeney during Vatican Council II indicating that the new doctrine was now magisterial and should be included in the Council. It was included in the Council text at LG 14, AG 7 etc.
Today unfortunately, traditionalists like the liberals interpret Vatican Council with Cushingism. So does Michael Voris.In one program Michael has said not every one needs to be a card carrying member of the Church. He means cases of the baptism of desire and blood etc are explicit exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
If he used Feeneyism as a theology he would be considered anti-Semitic by the Jewish Left and would also be opposed by the Archbishop of Detroit who is a Cushingite and has Cushingism taught as a theology at Catholic universities. School children in Detroit are taught in religion class that every one does not need to convert into the Catholic Church since there are exceptions.
"It is surprising that the bishops are unhappy with a prayer composed by Pope Benedict as recently as 2008, which, like the prayer it replaced, though in more measured language, reflects the theology and imagery of 2 Corinthians 3:13-16," says Dr. Joseph Shaw, chairman of the Latin Mass Society of England and Wales.
The Scripture passage Shaw cites reads:
It is not for us to use veiled language, as Moses veiled his face. He did it, so that the people of Israel might not go on gazing at the features of the old order, which was passing away. But in spite of that, dullness has crept over their senses, and to this day the reading of the old law is muffled with the same veil; no revelation tells them that it has been abrogated in Christ. To this day, I say, when the law of Moses is read out, a veil hangs over their hearts. There must be a turning to the Lord first, and then the veil will be taken away.
In a blog post, Shaw points out that even Cdl. Walter Kasper of Germany, a notorious modernist, sees the Extraordinary Form's prayer as in harmony with Church teaching, tradition and Scripture.
Lionel: Of course he would he would see it in harmony. It is a rejection of traditional Feeneyism. Cardinal Kasper in one of his first interviews to a magazine  when he was made a cardinal, announced that he does not accept the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Like Pope Benedict, Cardinal Kasper has replaced the old ecclesiology with irrational Cushingism. 
"If Cdl. Kasper has no problem with Pope Benedict's Prayer for the Jews, then it seems pretty surprising that anyone in the Church should have a problem with it," Shaw explains. "His affirmation that, obviously, Christ died for all men, could usefully be underlined."
Some wonder how unified the bishops' conference of England and Wales really was on the resolution.
Father Joseph Hunwicke, a U.K. priest, clarifies, "There appears to be no indication whether this resolution, passed last week by the English and Welsh Bishops, was unanimous; or how detailed and profound their discussion had been."
He's also concerned about the content of the bishops' appeal, which he believes is vague at best.
"What I would like to have, as a concerned Catholic Priest who tries to understand the Church's Magisterium," he says, "is a lucid and unwaffly statement of what exactly it is in the Prayer which contradicts which precise affirmations of 'Nostra Aetate,' a document to which, of course, I subscribe."
Lionel : According to Fr.Joseph Hunwicke, Nostra Aetete does not contradict the traditional teaching of the Catholic Church on the need for Jews to convert.
Regarding the note about the resolution found on the bishops' conference's website, he remarks, "Whoever drafted it is clearly someone who believes, at all costs, in avoiding honest, or precise, dialogue."
Lionel: Even if they did dialogue it would be with Cushingism as a theology.
-Lionel Andrades

Ryan Fitzgerald is a staff writer and producer for
Follow Ryan on Twitter: @RyanFitz1111

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