Friday, February 12, 2016

Chris Ferrara unknowingly uses an irrational premise and supports magisterial heresy

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Chris Ferrara at (42:05) on the Chris Ferrara-Mark Shea debate video confirms what I have been saying in these blog posts. It is : that the traditionalists are not aware of a magisterial heresy and they support it  unknowingly and in good faith. Chris Ferrara (22:29) affirms  the defined dogma which he says has been abandoned.He quotes the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Council of Florence(41:50).
The dogma explicitly says Jews need to convert into the Church for salvation (42:00) So Jews, and other non Catholics, need to objectively enter the Church to avoid the fires of Hell he says  but adds : putting aside the case of invincible ignorance (42:05) which Pope Pius IX said "Leave that to God'.
Why mention this ? There are no known cases of invincible ignorance who are saved.There are no known cases of persons in invincible ignorance of the Gospel through no fault of their own, who are saved without the baptism of water.There is not a single known case in history.
So why does Chris Ferrara mention (unknown) invincible ignorance as an exception to the dogmatic teaching of the Council of Florence ?
Zero cases of something are not exceptions says John Martignoni.
There are zero cases of persons saved in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water.If there was one such person he would be known only to God and would remain unknown to us.
When Chris Ferrara refers to being saved in invincible ignorance it is a sign that he assumes these cases are here on earth, they are known, they are not zero cases, they are known persons saved without the baptism of water.So he has to refer to this exception to the Council of Florence on extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).Otherwise why mention it?
So the dogma says all need to enter the Church and here on line he suggests all do not need to enter the Church since there is a possibility of someone being saved in invincible ignorance and these cases are known to him.This is his theology. It is the official theology of the contemporary magisterium.It is the official error of the contemporary magisterium.
The pre- Council of Trent popes could be responding to a campaign by people who wanted to make invincible ignorance an exception to the dogma EENS. So the popes responded to their questions and campaigns.
If the pope assumed being saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire was an exception to the dogma EENS, then he too made an objective mistake. Since objectively there cannot be any case of invincible ignorance for us human beings; for Catholics.
We can give the pope the benefit of the doubt. However the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 makes the offical leap towards heresy.It assumes that these hypothetical cases are explicit. This has been accepted by the SSPX bishops and the late Fr. Gruner. Here we have Chris Ferrara making the same error.
This is magisterial heresy.
It is this magisterial heresy which is being taught at Catholic schools, the schools which Chris Ferrara refers to.
This is official heresy with an irrational reasoning. Chris is using an irrational premise and inference with reference to invincible ignorance and then with the same irrationality he interprets Lumen Gentium 16 ( invincible ignorance), Vatican Council II. Then with the irrational conclusion he rejects Vatican Council II since it is a break with the dogma EENS on salvation.
Yet if like me he would consider LG 16 as  referring to a possibility known only to God and which would always be  followed by the baptism of water ( since it is dogmatic), then LG 16 would not be a break with the dogma EENS. There would not be a heretical intepretation of EENS or a Cushingite interpretation of Vatican Council II.
Chris Ferrara is using an irrational premise.
I mentioned sometime back that : the root of the problem is the premise.
The root of the problem is the premise.
The root of the problem is the premise.
The root of the problem is the premise.
( I could repeat this 100 times)
The problem is not Vatican Council II since I am interpreting it in perfect harmony with Tradition.No one has been able to contradict me all these years. No one has been able to correct me. While an Archbishop, the Dean of Theology at a Pontifical University in Rome, an American Catholic apologist and many Catholic priests have supported me. The irrationality ( the premise) is being used by all sides in the Franciscan Friars of the  Immaculate stand off.
The irrational premise is the magisterial heresy accepted by Chris Ferrara and Mark Shea.2
-Lionel Andrades


Here is the irrationality being used by all sides in the FI stand off.


1. All salvation in Heaven is physically visible to us on earth.
2. All salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II is physically visible to us on earth. We personally know these cases in 2016.
3.The dead-saved in Heaven are known, explicit for us.They are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
4.Those saved in imperfect communion with the Church(UR 3) are visible to us on earth.So the dogma on exclusive salvation has changed.Protestants are saved in 2016. All do not need to enter the Catholic Church any more.
5.A Protestant can be saved with 'seeds of the Word' (AG 11 etc). This is not implicit but explicit for us.
6.Nostra Aetate (NA 2) has changed the Catholic Church's teachings.Jews, Muslims and others are saved explicitly. There are explicit exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation in 2016.
7.Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy since being saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) is a known exception to his traditional interpretation of the dogma on salvation.

These are some aspects of how the false premise is used. I have been calling it the dead-saved and visible theory, or the dead man walking theory or the dead man walking and visible theory.
I have been joking about seeing the dead downtown, meeting ghosts and shaking their hands on the streets.- from

Michael Davis, Romano Amerio, Dietrich von Hildebrand were not aware of the irrational premise : Michael Mat, Chris Ferrara, John Rao, James Bogle, Joseph Shaw agree?

Chris Ferrara Vs Mark Shea

There can be mission Ad Gentes with Feeneyism or Cushingism. We can choose.For Pope Francis and the Jesuits it is mission with Cushingism

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