Friday, February 5, 2016

Immagine Cardinal Raymond Burke and Bishop Athanasius Schneider announcing in public that all non Catholics need to formally enter the Catholic Church for salvation and there are no exceptions and that this is the teaching of Vatican Council II

Sheep starving

Bishop Schneider speaks, sheep 

continue to starve

AKA Catholic


From Louie Verrechhio's blog with comments.

Louie Verrecchio:To which he made some very curious statements…
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Indeed the very source of the current crisis in the Church, the crisis of marriage, of the family and of the morality in general is not the liturgical reform, but the defects in faith, the doctrinal relativism, from which flows the moral and liturgical relativism.
Lionel: I agree with Bishop Schneider here. The crisis is not the liturgical reform but the defect in faith, the doctrinal relativism...
For, if I believe in a defective manner, I will live a defective moral life and I will worship in a defective, indifferent manner.
Lionel: Yes if I believe there is salvation outside the Church, then  the Catholic Faith has been changed.
 It is necessary first to restore the clearness and firmness of the doctrine of faith and of morals in all levels and, from there, start to improve the liturgy.
Lionel: Yes!
Affirm the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).You will then be affirming the old ecclesiology. You can then interpret Vatican Council II with the old ecclesiology.
The integrity and the beauty of the faith demands the integrity and the beauty of one’s moral life and this demands the integrity and the beauty of the public worship.
Lionel: The integrity and beauty of the faith demands integrity especially on the issue of EENS and Vatican Council II.
Begging His Excellency’s pardon, he has it exactly backwards.
The maxim, one that Bishop Schneider most certainly knows very well, is lex orandilex credendilex vivendi – loosely translated, the law of prayer (worship) establishes the law of belief, which itself establishes the way in which one lives.
Lionel: Vice versa. It is belief (doctrines, dogma) which establish worship- forms ( liturgy).If I believe there is salvation outside the Church and non Catholics are going to Heaven , then the Traditional Latin Mass is another worship-form in the Church and it is a break with the exclusivist ecclesiology of the past.
In its treatment of the liturgy, even the new Catechism renders the maxim as meaning, “The law of prayer is the law of faith: the Church believes as she prays…” (cf CCC 1124).
Lionel: If the Church believed in the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the faith of the people at Mass would be different.They would be aware of the importance of Mass and how all non Catholics need to be there at that precious worship.They would want their non Catholic friends to also be there.

And yet, Bishop Schneider would have us believe lex credendi, lex vivendi, lex orandi?
In essence, this novel twist on the traditional understanding of liturgy would make of Holy Mass a mere outgrowth of the moral life; i.e., a largely human endeavor born of faith, you know… like the services created by and for the heretics.
Lionel: The Freemasons today are not objecting to the Traditional Latin Mass. They are objectiing to the TLM with the old ecclesiology.They object to the extra ecclesiam nulla salus- ecclesiology.
Similarly they would object to any one who accepted Vatican Council II and also the old ecclesiology.
The issue is the ecclesiology. I attend the TLM and Mass in Italian with the extra ecclesiam nulla salus- ecclesiology.I understand the importance of Mass in Italian as a Sacrifice.It is also a necessity for salvation. It is part of a Church which is fomally necessary for salvation. So it is important that all people with no exceptions, be formal members of the Catholic Church.They must attend the Catholic Mass, the Catholic Sacrifice, and be saved from going to the fires of Hell. It it is with this concept that I come to Mass. This is in what I believe when when I pray at Mass.
Bishop Schneider doesn’t believe that.
One is left wondering why he feels compelled to pretend that the post-conciliar liturgy, the Novus Ordo Missae in particular, isn’t a primary instigator of the current ecclesial crisis?
Lionel: Why should he? I attend the TLM and Novus Ordo Mass and interpret Vatican Council II knowing all non Catholics need to formally enter the Church for salvation.
So for me the teachings of the Church, dogmas and doctrine, have not changed before and after Vatican Council II. This is what I believe. It is with this belief I pray.
Clearly, Bishop Schneider knows better. Within the very same interview he said:
Perhaps such clerics [as those who oppose the Mass of Ages] have fear of the great power of the truth irradiating from the celebration of the traditional Mass. One can compare the traditional Mass with a lion: Let him free, and he will defend himself.
Lionel: The  Mass of Ages is a Lion when the rigorist interpretation of the dogma EENS is affirmed.  The present Traditional Latin Mass is the Mass of Ages  only in the exterior form of the liturgy. The dogmas and doctrines of the faith have been removed.The dogma EENS and Vatican Council II is interpreted with Cushingism i.e every one does not need to be a formal member of the Church,since there are known exceptions. The baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance refer to  non Catholics saved without the baptism of water and they are known to  us ( or can be known ) and so are explicit exceptions to the old ecclesiology. It is with this liberal doctrine that Catholics pray at the Traditional Latin Mass today.It is Cushingism and not Feeneyism.This was not how St.Robert Bellarmine and St. Francis Xavier offered the Mass of Ages.
Has it occurred to Bishop Schneider that one may compare the Novus Ordo to a lion as well; one that devours the Catholic faith?
Lionel: In what does the Novus Ordo Mass devour the Catholic faith? One can be a devout traditionalist, a conservative on all issues and then still attend this Mass.
For instance, now at the Novus Ordo Mass annulments for marriage are given and also a non Catholic can marry a Catholic. This is not the fault of the Holy Mass. The fault is there with the rejection of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
When it is believed that outside the Church there is no salvation no Catholic would take a Protestant or Jew to a church to be married. It would be known that this would be adultery. Now it is not adultery since it is assumed there is known salvation outside the Church,there are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So the fault is not there with the liturgy of the Novus Ordo Mass . The fault is there with the rejection of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Of course it has, but don’t take my word for it.
In a 2012 interview, His Excellency spoke of “five wounds of the liturgical mystical body of Christ” that he equated with instances of “rupture,” among which he numbered: the celebration of Mass facing the people, Communion in the hand, the loss of the Latin language, and the use of female acolytes.

Lionel: He did not mention the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Concluding on an up note, I have to commend Bishop Schneider for speaking up in defense of the Society of St. Pius X:
Those who have fear of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X ultimately have fear of the perennial Catholic truths and of its demands in the moral and the liturgical domain.
Lionel: The SSPX, like Bishop Schneider is not affirming the perennial Catholic truth on extra ecclesiam nulla salus. They do not comment on the factual mistake, the innovation, in the Baltimore Catechism and  the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston  which causes confusion in the interpretation of Vatican Council II. It is with this confusion in doctrine that Catholics are called to prayer. 
Magisterial heresy, ecclesiastical heresy, has replaced Catholic orthodoxy.There is a change in faith and so there will be a change in worship.
Hey, Mike Voris, pay attention… Bishop Schneider went on to say:
… one has to consider the life and the work of these Catholic priests and faithful of the SSPX as a gift for the Church in our days – even as one of the several instruments which the Divine Providence uses to remedy the enormity of the current general crisis of the faith, of the morals and of the liturgy inside the Church.
Lionel: The SSPX is not a remedy. They offer the Traditional Latin Mass with confusion over ecclesiology. They are clearly interpreting Vatican Council II with an irrationality and do not seem to have a clue about it or do not want to admit that they were wrong all these years. They were duped by the liberals including those in the magisterium.

Bishop Schneider concluded his remarks on the Society by saying:
I consider their General Superior, His Excellency Monsignor Bernard Fellay, as an exemplarily and true Catholic bishop. There is some hope for a canonical recognition of the SPPX.
Lionel: He wants the SSPX to be accepted canonically after they rubber stamp Vatican Council II interpreted with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism. This is how Bishop Schneider interprets Vatican Council II and retains his canonical status.

When canonical recognition may be granted to the SSPX is anyone’s guess, but I agree with this assessment of Bishop Fellay wholeheartedly.
Let us hope and pray that “full communion” prelates, like Bishop Schneider, will not wait until the Society is regularized to begin emulating Bishop Fellay, and to address head-on “the enormity of the current general crisis of the faith, of the morals and of the liturgy” from their own privileged places “inside the Church.”
Lionel: Bishop Athanasius Schneider and Bishop Bernard Fellay like Louie Verrecchio have to see the error of the present crisis originating in the Baltimore Catechism and then continuing in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 and then on to Vatican Council II. Once they have identified the error they are in a position to re-interpret Vatican Council II, with no changes in text, as being in harmony with the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This would be a new Church but it would also be the old Church.
Imagine Cardinal Raymond Burke and Bishop Athanasius Schneider announcing in public that all non Catholics need to formally enter the Catholic Church for salvation and there are no exceptions and that this is the teaching of Vatican Council II and the popes and saints of the past.
Imagine this being said by priests during the homily. They would be saying Vatican Council II has brought in a different type of revolution in the Church.
It would be a new Catholic Church, vigorously alive.There would be liberal bishops and cardinals opposing all this but with no reference text in Vatican Council II to support their ideology.Imagine how important all this would be for the ordinary lay Catholic's understanding of mission and evangelisation.
Then imagine the Left protesting and lay Catholics, simply quoting Vatican Council II.
-Lionel Andrades

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