Newman Theological College, Canada and the Vatican Curia use an irrationality in the interpretation of Vatican Council II and this cannot be magisterial.It cannot be the teaching of the Holy Spirit.
How can the Holy Spirit make an objective mistake?
How can the Holy Spirit suggest that there are hypothetical cases which are objectively visible? And then how can the Holy Spirit infer that these visible cases in Heaven are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
Yet this is how the Newman Theological College(NTC) and the Vatican Curia interpret LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc.
Being saved in 'imperfect communion with the Church'(UR 3) refers to an objective case, objectively seen in the present times for them.So it is an exception to the old exclusivist ecclesiology, which they reject.This is how Wikipedia interprets LG 16 ( See Fr.Leonard Feeney/extra ecclesiam nulla salus).
This interpretation cannot be magisterial.
It is a human innovation which has come into the Catholic Church through the Baltimore Catechism.The American bishops approved it.They also approved the error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.The Letter to the Archbishop of Boston 1949 was made public by the Archdiocese some three years after it was privately dispatched to the Archbishop,Richard Cushing.
It is a human innovation which has come into the Catholic Church through the Baltimore Catechism.The American bishops approved it.They also approved the error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.The Letter to the Archbishop of Boston 1949 was made public by the Archdiocese some three years after it was privately dispatched to the Archbishop,Richard Cushing.
Being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire had nothing to do with the dogma EENS or the baptism of water.Yet they are made relevant in the 1949 Letter from the magisterium in Rome.This error was then inserted into Vatican Council II.
Why did Vatican Council II have to refer to being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire?
Now NTC and the Vatican Curia assume being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire 1) are explicit, objectively seen in the flesh and 2) they are objective exceptions, to all needing to formally enter the Catholic Church for salvation.
This is objectively false, it is fantasy theology, it is based on an irrationality.
It cannot also be magisterial since it contradicts the centuries old magisterium on outside the Church there is no salvation (EENS).
NTC and the Vatican Curia consider it magisterial when they have used a false premise( people in Heaven are physically visible without the baptism of water) and inference ( these visible cases are objective exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Church for salvation) to produce a non traditional conclusion( Vatican Council II contradicts Tradition ).
FOR ME
I assume hypothetical cases are hypothetical and not objective.So they are not relevant to the old ecclesiology as exceptions. I accept Vatican Council II with no exceptions to EENS.
Since there are no exceptions to EENS there is no change in the traditional ecclesiology of the Church.This is the traditional teaching of the Catholic Church supported by the Holy Spirit.It is magisterial.
So I am affirming the official teachings of the Church according to the magisterium, according to magisterial texts and documents (Vatican Council II,Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257,845,846, Council of Trent, Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence etc) .
The Vatican Curia and NTC are a break with the traditional magisterium, they are also irrational and have based their theology on a lie ( there are visible persons in Heaven without the baptism of water).
They are not magisterial since they can only affirm the official teachings of the Church according to magisterial texts and documents, interpretated with an irrational premise and inference (Vatican Council II, Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257,845,846, Council of Trent, Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence etc).They have to use an irrationality to interpret these magisterial documents as a break with EENS.This cannot be the teaching of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit cannot teach a lie or make an objective error.
-Lionel Andrades
It cannot also be magisterial since it contradicts the centuries old magisterium on outside the Church there is no salvation (EENS).
NTC and the Vatican Curia consider it magisterial when they have used a false premise( people in Heaven are physically visible without the baptism of water) and inference ( these visible cases are objective exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Church for salvation) to produce a non traditional conclusion( Vatican Council II contradicts Tradition ).
FOR ME
I assume hypothetical cases are hypothetical and not objective.So they are not relevant to the old ecclesiology as exceptions. I accept Vatican Council II with no exceptions to EENS.
Since there are no exceptions to EENS there is no change in the traditional ecclesiology of the Church.This is the traditional teaching of the Catholic Church supported by the Holy Spirit.It is magisterial.
So I am affirming the official teachings of the Church according to the magisterium, according to magisterial texts and documents (Vatican Council II,Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257,845,846, Council of Trent, Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence etc) .
The Vatican Curia and NTC are a break with the traditional magisterium, they are also irrational and have based their theology on a lie ( there are visible persons in Heaven without the baptism of water).
They are not magisterial since they can only affirm the official teachings of the Church according to magisterial texts and documents, interpretated with an irrational premise and inference (Vatican Council II, Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257,845,846, Council of Trent, Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence etc).They have to use an irrationality to interpret these magisterial documents as a break with EENS.This cannot be the teaching of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit cannot teach a lie or make an objective error.
-Lionel Andrades
Catholic Theological College in Canada also uses irrational Cushingism instead of traditional Feeneyism as a theology to interpret Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/catholic-theological-college-in-canada.htmlPakistani Catholic seminary uses irrational theology to interpret Vatican Council II http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/pakistani-catholic-seminary-uses.html
Catholic Theological College in Canada also uses irrational Cushingism instead of traditional Feeneyism as a theology to interpret Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/catholic-theological-college-in-canada.html
Ave Maria University like the sedevacantist seminary in Florida uses irrational Cushingism instead of traditional Feeneyism to interpret Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/ave-maria-university-like-sedevacantist.html
Florida seminaries and universities unaware: Vatican Council II can be interpreted with the theology of Feeneyism or Cushingism
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/02/florida-seminaries-and-universities.html
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4 comments:
So would all the people who were physically unable to even hear of the Catholic Church, such as native Indians of North America before Christianity got to them, all damned without exception? Same for Buddhists in China or any other similar circumstance.
Remnant Clergy:
So would all the people who were physically unable to even hear of the Catholic Church, such as native Indians of North America before Christianity got to them, all damned without exception?
Lionel:
Yes this was the teaching of the Catholic Church for centuries until an error was made in the Baltimore Catechism and the Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston 1949.Then the error was placed in Vatican Council II indirectly in UR 3, LG 8, AG 11 etc and directly in LG 14 . LG 14 suggests only those who know need to enter the Church formallly for salvation.
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Same for Buddhists in China or any other similar circumstance.
Lionel.
Yes.
Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) also says all need faith and baptism for salvation. Most people we know, die without Catholic Faith. They are oriented to Hell.
This is the pre and post Vatican Council II official teaching of the Catholic Church interpreted with Feeneyism as a theology and without irrational Cushingism.
Cushingism, is named after Archbishop Richard Cushing and the Jesuits of that time in Boston.It suggests there are known exceptions to the Feeneyite interpretatiom of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
1.If there are known exceptions, then the implication is that there are people in Heaven saved without the baptism of water and they are personally known, physically visible to be exceptions to the centuries old interpretation of the dogma on salvation.They would have to be known to be an exception. They would have to be visible and not invisible. So we know that this proposition is fantasy.
2.
Or, it means there are known persons on earth, who we know, will be saved without 'faith and baptism'.This is not possible. Since this can be known only to God.
In faith, following the perennial magisterium of the Church guided by the Holy Spirit, we know that most people are oriented to the fires of Hell since they die without Catholic Faith. Catholic Faith includes the Sacraments and the faith and moral teachings of the Church.
This means rejecting the teachings of the contemporary magisterium, which uses irrational Cushing theology, to interpret Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church etc.Their interpretation cannot be the teachings of the Holy Spirit.Since the Holy Spirit cannot teach an irrationality nor teach something new, which is a break with the old magisterium of the Catholic Church.
So one can still follow the perennial magisterium and accept Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992) interpreted with rational and traditional Feeneyism - and wait for the contemporary magisterim and the traditionalists to catch up.
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Sorry, but you are wrong and on this matter and are effectively a Calvinist who thinks that God creates people for damnation. These people who could never have heard of Jesus were put there by God, and God knew that they had no way to hear of Jesus and so God created them for damnation according to your logic. When you reject official Church authority like you do, then you are nothing but a protestant yourself, in spite of claims otherwise.
There will be the Illumination of Conscience soon, the 6th Seal in the Bible, and everyone will see their soul. Recall that you are judged as you judge others? So you will have a very rude awakening.
Sorry, but you are wrong and on this matter and are effectively a Calvinist who thinks that God creates people for damnation.
Lionel:
As long as a person is alive there is hopè. If he converts in faith, becomes a Catholic and lives the Gospel according to the Catholic Church he will be saved.He will not be condemned.In Heaven there are only Catholics who are there without mortal sin on their soul.
In general people are born with Original Sin and then commit mortal sins in this state. They are all oriented to Hell without the baptism of water.(John 3:%, Mark 16:16)
This is the teaching of the Catholic Church inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is also the teaching of Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) and that of the Catechism of the Catholic Church ( 1257-the necessity of baptism and 845 and 846- all need faith and baptism for salvation).
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These people who could never have heard of Jesus were put there by God, and God knew that they had no way to hear of Jesus and so God created them for damnation according to your logic.
Lionel: St Thomas Aquinas mentions the man in the forest in ignorance who is to be saved. He says God will send a preacher to him.So that before he dies he will be baptised and taught the Faith. This is a possibility and it is a hypothetical case.
In general, all need faith and baptism for salvation (Vatican Council II) so the natives in N. America before the missionaries went there were oriented to Hell. We do not know of any exceptional case among them, like the one referred to by St. Thomas Aquinas.We cannot know.Being saved with faith and baptism is the norm, being saved in invincible ignorance, allegedly without the baptism of water, is not the norm according to the Catholic Church.
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When you reject official Church authority like you do, then you are nothing but a protestant yourself, in spite of claims otherwise.
Lionel: I affirm Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church interpreted with Feeneyism i.e there are no known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. For us humans there cannot be any objective case of someone being saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.There is no salvation outside the visible boundaries(faith and baptism) of the Church
You affirm Vatican Council IIi and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I assume, like most other Catholics. You interpret them with Cushingism i.e there ARE KNOWN exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. For us humans THERE ARE objective cases of someone being saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church. For you THERE IS salvation outside the visible boundariesof the Church
For me Cushingism is irrational, non traditional and heretical since it is a break with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Nicene Creed (Feeneyite version).
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There will be the Illumination of Conscience soon, the 6th Seal in the Bible, and everyone will see their soul. Recall that you are judged as you judge others? So you will have a very rude awakening.
Lionel:
I AM affirming the offical teaching of the Catholic Church intepreted without the common irrational premise and inference, to achieve a non traditional conclusion.I am not saying anything new.
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