Comments from Full text of Benedict XVI's recent, rare, and lengthy interview
- Why do you think I believe that someone could be saved without the baptism of water ?
- 1.I personally do not know of any such case.
- 2.No one in the past could have known of any such case. Physically they could not see people in Heaven saved without the baptism of desire etc.Neither could they say that any particular person on earth was saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.
- 3.Those who refer to 'the desirethereof 'do not state that these cases were explicit and personally known. It was theologians who interpreted these cases as being explicit.So when a long list of baptism of desire cases are presented, for me, there is not a single one which says that these cases are objective or relevant to EENS.
- 4. No one who issued the Baltimore Catechism knew of a case of some one saved with 'only the desire' and without the baptism of water. So how could they speculate that the desire thereof ( Council of Trent) was a known baptism like the baptism of water? This was irrational. The baptism of water is physical. The baptism of desire is not.
- So if you say there is salvation outside the Church you are speculating. But you cannot posit this speculation as being an explicit, physical, known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
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- Lionel:
- We can discuss it.. But the pope must affirm the dogma as the previous popes in the 16th century and not posit exceptions based on being able to see people in Heaven without the baptism of water. He is not affirming the dogma. Then he is denying it with the use of an irrationality.Where are the people saved outside the Church which is the basis of his theology?
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