Wednesday, April 20, 2016

We cannot say in any specific case that one knows that someone living in mortal sin will not go to Hell and has Sanctifying Grace.

From the blog From Rome :Amoris Laetitia: Anatomy of a Pontifical Debacle
  1. How can the conditions for mortal sin or actual baptism of desire be explicit for us human beings? This is the flaw in the new theology, in faith and morals. This point is omitted in Ferrara’s critique
  2. The Editor says:
  3. A condition for mortal sin is 3 fold: knowledge that it is mortal, deliberation, and objectively immoral. If by explicit you mean, self-aware, then it depends on one’s self awareness, which is subjective; but if you mean objective, then one of the three is objective. Nevertheless, according to St. Alphonsus, deviations from the natural law, simply speaking, are impossible without deliberation and assent since no one can be ignorant of what is contrary to the manifest precepts of the natural law. For that reason, one does not need to address the issue directly in a critique of Amoris Laetitia, because it deals with such sins.
 
Editor:
A condition for mortal sin is 3 fold: knowledge that it is mortal, deliberation, and objectively immoral.
Lionel:
 These conditions are subjective.I cannot say that a case of manifest mortal sin is not a mortal sin since, there was no 'deliberation'.Only God can judge this.
Editor:
 If by explicit you mean, self-aware, then it depends on one’s self awareness, which is subjective;
Lionel:
I mean the three conditions of mortal sin would be subjective for the sinner.It is not explicit for the on looker.He cannot say that a particular case of mortal sin is not a mortal sin since he knows one or the more three conditions are missing.
Amoris Laetitia (301) says that there are exceptions to judging mortal sin, a mortal sin is not always a mortal sin.
So where are the exceptions and who can judge social or subjective conditions as exceptions?
I don't think any us has this ability to judge.We cannot assume that Jesus will say that there is an exception to his teaching in a particular case.
We can speculate in general about the conditions of mortal sin. This is hypothetical. However we cannot say in any specific case that one knows that someone living in mortal sin will not go to Hell and has Sanctifying Grace.
 
Similarly we cannot know of an actual case of the baptism of desire in 2016.So there is no explicit baptism of desire. We cannot know of someone saved without the baptism of water but with the baptism of desire. So how can the baptism of desire be relevant or an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, as interpreted by Fr.Leonard Feeney or the 16th century Jesuit missionaries.There are no explicit exceptions.
Chris Ferrara accepts that there are known exceptions as taught in the new moral and salvation theology.
Neither do you for example, deny that the baptism of desire is not an exception to the dogma EENS. You have the same position on this issue as the sedevacantists and SSPX traditionalists.
-Lionel Andrades
1.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."


https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2016/04/19/amoris-laetitia-anatomy-of-a-pontifical-debacle/
 

 

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