Monday, July 11, 2016

Everyone in Heaven is Catholic - Michael Voris

Lionel: I agree with Michael Voris here.
However theologically there is no clarification from Church Militant TV(CMTV).Since for CMTV the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This was the view in an otherwise good Mic'd Up program on Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus hosted by Christine Niles,with Michael Voris commenting from Rome.
CMTV accepts the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which says the baptism of desire etc,allegedly without the baptism of water,  are exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma EENS, expressed well by Michael Voris here on this Vortex.
Michael has in the past however also said that 'every one does not need to be a card carrying member of the Church'. Simon Rafe also supports this theological position of Michael Voris which is that of the liberals and traditionalists.
It is part of the new theology, based on a false premise, which makes the new theology contradict the Principle of Non Contradiction.
It is this new theology which is part of the CMTV interpretation of Vatican Council II.
So Vatican Council II would say for the CMTV team that all need to enter the Church (AG 7, LG 14) but some do not need to do so (LG 16. LG 14).Here LG 16, LG 14,for CMTV,  refer to explicit cases based on the false premise.
This would not be how I would interpret Vatican Council II. LG 16 and LG 14 would refer to hypothetical cases. So it would not be an exception to Michael Voris' understanding of salvation, as expressed clearly and directly in this Vortex.
So the Catechism of the Catholic Church for CMTV would say all need the baptism of water for salvation(CCC 1257) and it would also say contradictorily that God is not limited to the Sacraments, and so all do not need the Sacrament of Baptism for salvation.This is an expression of the new theology.
For me CCC 1257 would not contradict itself as it does for CMTV, since we do not know any case in 2016 or in the past, of someone saved without the baptism of water because God is not limited to the Sacraments. So 'God is not limited to the Sacraments',for me, does not contradict Michael's clear presentation of Catholic salvation in this Vortex.
This new theology on salvation has a direct bearing on the liturgy.It influences are lex orandi, lex credendi and lex vivendi which Christine Niles  mentioned on the last Friday Download.It was  on the Sacred Liturgy and Cardinal Sarah's comments on the priest facing East and all communicants needing to kneel.

Could CMTV theologically say that there are no known cases of the baptism of desire or blood, and being saved in invincible ignorance, in 2016,with or without the baptism of water?
Also that there could be no such known case in the past for us human beings?
When the saints and the popes referred to the baptism of desire etc they were referring to invisible- for- them baptism of desire.There were no objective cases, seen in the flesh?
So the baptism of desire etc being invisible and not known in personal cases is not, and was not, an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
It means that the magisterium made a mistake in the second part of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 when it assumed hypothetical cases, are known exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Also mentioning these cases in Vatican Council II was a mistake.They are superfluous passages.
-Lionel Andrades

JULY 11, 2016

The Download—Restoring the Liturgy ( Why cannot this be lex credendi, lex orandi,lex vivendi for CMTV?)

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