Tuesday, July 12, 2016

Michael Voris' videos on exclusive salvation in the Church are contradictory

Image result for Photo Michael Voris

On the Vortex, Do Non-Catholics go to Hell? ( April 24, 2016) Michael Voris says all salvation comes through the Catholic Church and outside of the Church there is no salvation. Here he repeats the new theology which accomodates being saved with the baptism of desire etc which it is supposed is explicit and personally known. So in this way it becomes relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Image result for Photo Dr.Robert Fastiggi
Michael does not affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, since for him there are exceptions like the baptism of desire etc. This would also be the understanding of Dr.Robert Fastiggi,professor of theology at the Sacred Heart Seminary,Detroit.The faculty there affirm the new theology which contradicts the Principle of Non Contradiction.The violation of the Principle of Non Contradiction arises when an irrational premise is used. The premise assumes hypothetical cases are personally visible in the present times.In other words cases of the baptism of desire, with or without the baptism of water, are visible to the naked eye on the streets of Detroit. This makes it relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).
The dogma says every one needs to enter the Church for salvation and Michael Voris says the issue is not “card-carrying" or being " on the parish rolls” for salvation. .Like the Sacred Heart Seminary faculty in Detroit, he will  not say that defacto all need to be card carrying members of the Church for salvation in 2016. All need to have their names on the parish rolls, for salvation.Instead he assumes hypothetical cases are exceptions to all needing to be defacto 'card carrying members 'of the Church.
He says on the video:-
Now true, God’s grace is not bound by the sacraments. He can certainly operate outside of them.
Yes hypothetically but hypothetical cases cannot in 2016 be relevant to the dogma EENS.Since they are defacto invisible.It is the new theology which assumes that hypothetical cases are objective in the present times.
Michael says:
 He did in such manifest cases as the conversion of St. Paul, for example. Saul received a singular grace of conversion. And while that grace was not mediated through a formal sacrament, it nevertheless did come through the Church—as all graces do. It was after all the Church that was praying non-stop for relief from the murderous Saul.  In answer to the prayer of the Church about Saul, God sent them Paul.
Yes and St. Paul's conversion case cannot be an objective exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus in 2016. For there to be an exception there must be a person who is saved without the Sacraments, in the present times. Some one from the past cannot be an exception this year. St.Emerentiana or St. Victor if they died and were saved without the baptism of water in the past, cannot be an exception to all needing to formally enter the Church, in 2016.
Michael says:
The example case is always brought up: Does the “good” Protestant husband and father go to Hell because he wasn’t Catholic?
Yes according to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Even the good Catholic husband and father who dies with one un-Confessed mortal sin will go to Hell.
The Protestant is living with mortal sins of faith and morals.
Now, we can never know with any certitude, of course, the disposition of any particular soul; that is completely in the realm of Our Lord as Judge. But in the hypothetical discussions people engage in, we can ask these questions. We speak in hypotheticals because principles of understanding fall from them. 
Hypothetically we know that non Catholics in general are on the way to Hell since this is the dogmatic teaching.Also Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) says all need faith and baptism for salvation.
And the singular principle that falls from all of this is: It is much more difficult to be saved if you are not a Catholic with access to the sacraments to restore you to and keep you in a state of grace. Faithful sacrament-frequenting Catholics are much more likely to be saved than anyone else because such a man is much more likely to die in a state of grace—which is necessary to be saved.
In principle all non- Catholics are on the way to Hell without faith and baptism . The Native Americans were oriented to Hell before the missionaries arrived there.It is only with the new theology, with the exceptions-premise, it is possible to say that they were not all on the way to Hell, since there is salvation outside the Catholic Church.
I agree with Michael Voris when he says here :
This is the whole point of evangelizing: to help people understand the perilous risk to which they are exposing their souls if they do not become Catholic and faithfully receive the sacraments given to us by Our Lord Himself for our salvation.
He understands that it is necessary for every one to be a card carrying member of the Church even though he contradicts himself when he supports the new theology.
With the new theology he is saying that there is salvation outside the Church and so theologically he contradicts what he has said on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church on the Vortex Being Saved ( July 11, 2016).2

It is also with an irrational premise, that Michael Voris  interprets Vatican Council II as a break with the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation. This is also the approach of Dr. Robert Fastiggi and the faculty at the Sacred Heart Seminary in Detroit.
The Sacred Heart Seminary would contradict the Vortex Being Saved.For them   hypothetical cases,  like the baptism of desire and blood and being saved in  invincible, all without the baptism of water,are exceptions to what Michael Voris has said on the excellent video Being Saved.
If there are objections to this video from theologians, the CMTV staff simply have to make it clear that they accept being saved with the baptism of desire and blood and with invincible ignorance.
 For them 1) these are hypothetical cases known only to God.So they cannot be defacto exceptions to the dogma EENS and the message on Being Saved. This is common sense.
2) Dogmatically the baptism of desire etc would be followed with the baptism of water.This will happen in a way known only to God. So all who are in Heaven, as the video says, are Catholics.
-Lionel Andrades


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