Wednesday, September 21, 2016

Modernist Traditional Latin Mass

Lionel L. Andrades

Holy Cannoli,
I have mentioned that Vatican Council II can be interpreted with an irrational premise and irrational conclusion, or without it. You have not commented on this.
I refer to the irrational interpretation as Cushingism and the rational and traditional interpretation as Feeneyism.You have not commented on it.
I have written that without the four points( mentioned below) the interpretation of Vatican Council II changes.You have also not thought this through and commented on it.
You could ask these questions in your church. Or phone up Fr. Hunwicke,FSSP or SSPX priests and ask there opinion and post it here.
I think they all know what I am saying. Since I have been saying the same thing for the last few years.
However they do not want to be suspended by the Vatican or lose their reputation or some interest.So they remain politically correct even though the Traditional Latin Mass which they offer, is theologically modernist.
Today we have the phenomenon of the modernist Traditional Latin Mass which is a rupture with the Mass of the 16th century for example.
The Vatican and the two popes know this. So they are approving the Tradtional Latin Mass to be offered by the FSSP and other comunities who interpret Vatican Council II with the irrational Rahner theology, Cushingite theology.While they do not permit the Franciscans of the Immaculate, who reject 'the speculative doctrines of Karl Rahner, the Jesuit', to offer the Latin Mass.
Fr.Hunwicke does not have any problem. Since he interprets Vatican Council II with the irrational premise and conclusion.He does it with the four points mentioned here.So he keeps quiet on this issue.He is politically correct with the Left.
The Latin Mass Society of England and Wales is also Cushingite. Dr.Joseph Shaw will not affirm the Feeneyite interpretation of Vatican Council II. He could be protecting his job at Oxford University .Now he has the approval of the Vatican and the liberal English bishops.
I have written all this not out of dis-respect for any of them but so that this issue is discussed and resolved.-Lionel


Holy Cannoli
Lionel L. Andrades wrote:
Fr. John Hunwicke, Joseph Shaw, the FSSP priests and the sedevantists influenced by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, do not say that they reject Cushingism and accept Feeneyism.They offer/ attend Mass with an irrational and heretical interpretative theology.
There you have it. According to Lionel Andrades, the above priests are all heretics. Do you realize what you are Lionel and what your demeaning posts say about you? I don't think you do so I am going to tell you.
You are a spamming egomaniac. You will repeat a line or two of an article that is posted and follow it by making a non-relevant rambling post polluting and hi-jacking that given article in order to 1) feed your own ego and, (you hope) 2) generate hits to your boring, convoluted and pathetically written blog.
In spite of your using bright colors to highlight text, bold and other childish gimmicks to attract attention, you deceive nobody and your actions are obvious to everyone. You are so identified with your own bizarre spamming posts you are unable to see what an uninteresting dullard you actually are.
You have no idea what EENS is and is not. You do not understand what VC-II taught or did not teach. Instead you prefer to make rambling screeds railing against only heaven knows what each and every day. You think you know more than Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. You think you know more than the priests of the FSSP. You think you know more than the SSPX bishops. In short, you think you know more than every Catholic who has ever lived or is currently living.
You are an individual who is deeply disturbed, obsessive, egomaniacal and self-absorbed in his own eccentric thoughts who has made his very deep seated pathology clear to everyone at this website for weeks and weeks. You desperately need psychological/psychiatric intervention.

Lionel L. Andrades
There can only be a conflict between Traditionalists and Modernists over Vatican Council II when it is wrongly assumed :-
1.Invisible cases are visible in the present times ( 1960-2016).
2.Lumen Gentium 16 ( invincible ignorance) and Lumen Gentium 14 ( baptism of desire) refer to a visible case.
3.Vatican Council II contradicts the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus since Lumen Gentium 16 etc are visible exceptions to the dogma.
4.The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus has exceptions. They are the baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance, all without the baptism of water.

It's as simple as this.Try it! Interpret Vatican Council II without this error.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre for example, was not aware of these four points.So Vatican Council II became a rupture with Tradition.
He could not say that Vatican Council II traditionally says all non Catholics need to convert into the Church for salvation and so Vatican Council II supports the old ecclesiology of the Church.

He could not say this. Since he was not aware of the four points above. So he interpreted the Council as a break with Tradition.The SSPX bishops, even after being informed today, still do the same.
When Vatican Council II does not contradict the old ecclesiology how can there be the difference between traditionalists and modernists ? The modernists have their legitimacy only by interpreting Vatican Council II as a break with Tradition.
So this was the mistake made in the film in 1972.It ignored the four points mentioned above.
With these four points in order, a Catholic can attend the Traditional Latin Mass or the Novus Ordo Mass and the ecclesiology would be the same. It would be that of the 16th century missionaries,traditionalists.
It is the present day 'modernists' who should be on the defensive. Since there will be no text which they can cite from Vatican Council II to support their interpretation of the Council as break with Tradition.LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc would all refer to hypothetical case. So they cannot be known exceptions to the old ecclesiology based on Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
-Lionel Andrades



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