So it is only by using an irrationality that the present magisterium can re-interpret magisterial documents and say Vatican Council II indicates all Jews and Muslims in Italy do not need to convert into the Catholic Church in 2016.

Yesterday everning I was talking to an elderly nun who could not accept a previous blog post in Italian which said VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS ALL MUSLIMS, JEWS IN ROME, ITALY ARE GOING TO HELL.

She just could not believe it.She would say that this is not Vatican Council II. I had to reminded her that the quotes were there in front of her.

I told her that the Holy Spririt guides the magisterium of the Church and that this was not a personal view.

However the issue is complicated for Catholics.

For when I say that this is the magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church I mean it is the magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church in magisterial documents which include Vatican Council II.It is the magisterial teaching in magisterial documents also without the the new theology based on the irrational premise.

It is not the magisterial teaching of the present magisterium of persons. Here is the problem.The magisterium of persons, the two popes and the Vatican Curia, have not accepted the magisterial documents like me.The popes interpret them with the false premise and conclusion. They use the new theology.

In the report VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS ALL MUSLIMS, JEWS IN ROME, ITALY ARE GOING TO HELL. I was not using the irrational premise.

The Italian nun began using it in our brief discussion.

As expected she brought up the issue of the baptism of desire. For her the baptism of desire refers to a known case in the present times.It also excludes the baptism of water. So for her it is a known exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

For me the baptism of desire refers to an unknown and invisible case in 2016 and it would not exclude the baptism of water since this is the dogmatic teaching. However with or without the baptism of water, it is an invisible and unknown case. So it is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

So hypothetical references mentioned in Vatican Council II(LG 16, LG 8 etc) cannot be exceptions to the dogma EENS.

For the present magisterium, the popes and the Curia, hypothetical cases are exceptions to the dogma EENS. For them hypothetical cases are explicit.

Similalry for the Italian sister the baptism of desire was an exception to me saying all Jews and Muslims in Italy need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation. So she was inferring that the baptism of desire case was known and visible for her and it excluded the baptism of water.

This is irrational.

How can someone in Heaven be visible on earth?
How can she know of someone who will be saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church'.
So it is only by using an irrationality that the present magisterium can re-interpret magisterial documents  and say Vatican Council II indicates all Jews and Muslims in Italy do not need to convert into the Catholic Church in 2016.
-Lionel Andrades