Thursday, May 18, 2017

CMTV indicates initial apparitions at Medugorje are from God and the rest from....

Christine Niles wrote a moderate report on Medugorje and probably Michael Voris/Simon Rafe did not like it . I used a positive quote from it on my blog.Now she has had to write another report for CMTV. Here it is.


Final tally offers zero votes in favor of authenticity of 35 years' worth of alleged visions

Lionel: First of all lets be clear,the Ruini report was not issued this week or last week.It was elaborated on by Tornelli this week. But it's findings were there a long time back and they were always reported positively.Christine herself says that the initial apparitions were found to be genuine and that too from a majority of 13 members.
So my question is the same as the comment on CMTV by someone.It was knocked out.It makes me laugh. The commentor said, something like this, "CMTV you are saying that the initial apparitions were genuine and the rest are diabolical? Where is your sense of logic and proportion".That comment was removed and replaced with two other comments critical of Medugorje.
Any way , we agree that these are private opinions on CMTV just as the pope said his opinion was also private.These are my personal opinions too.
O.K. CMTV. The initial seven apparitions  were from God and the rest from the Devil!!-this is what you are saying.
ROME ( - The results of the Vatican's official investigation into Medjugorje are in — and they paint an overall negative picture of the authenticity of the alleged Marian apparitions. The final tally on authenticity of apparitions from 1982 onwards resulted in zero votes in favor, two votes against, and 12 votes claiming no opinion could be given.
Lionel: This is CMTV's opinion.Pope Francis himself said that he wanted to respect the Ruini Commission and so he had not prohibited the apparitions.I think that the Masons would not want the seers to travel about and evangelise and pray with massive congregations at stadiums.They would not like Catholics to come back to the faith in hundreds of thousands. They would also consider these apparitions a block towards the one religion which Pope Francis seems to be promoting for them and CMTV does not report on it.So it is surprising that the pope still allows them to continue.
The first seven apparitions, which reportedly took place in 1981, received a generally positive response, with 13 members of the Vatican commission voting yes as to their supernatural nature, one voting no, and one vote suspended. 
Lionel: The first seven were from God and according to CMTV the rest from Satan! Interesting.😄
But the second phase — which include the 35 years from 1982 to the present day — received a strongly mixed reaction, including a final tally with zero votes in favor of the supernatural nature of the apparitions.
Lionel: They commented on the seven initial apparitions and did not do so with the rest of them, in thousands.It was was not practical. Cardinal Ruini and members of the Commission, liberals who have rejected 'the dogma of the faith' were there to give their private opinion on apparitions.They do not have a special charism to detect and authenticate the apparitions, which they do not receive. What would be their criteria for judging? Doctrine and theology? But Pope Francis rejects doctrine and theology in general and Cardinal Muller does not object there.Cardinal Muller interprets Vatican Council II with irrational Cushingism theology, which does not come from the Holy Spirit but human error; Rahner-Ratzinger error.
According to Vaticanista Andrea Tornielli, "the commission took note of the heavy interference caused by the conflict between the bishop and the Franciscans of the parish, as well as the fact that the apparitions, pre-announced and programmed individually for each seer, continued with repetitive messages."
Lionel: For those who follow the messages they are meaningful and not repetitive. Any way this is a qualification for rejecting the messages?
In 1999, the Franciscans who served as spiritual advisors to the children were expelled from the diocese of Mostar-Duvno by their bishop, Ratko Peric, as well as by the Father General of the Order of Friars Minor, for disobedience. The Vatican approved the joint expulsion.
In 2008, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith launched an investigation into Fr. Tomislav Vlasic, spiritual director to the child visionaries, whose bishop suspended him "for the diffusion of dubious doctrine, manipulation of consciences, suspicious mysticism, disobedience toward legitimately issued orders," as well as charges of sexual immorality.
Lionel: So this has a bearing on the authenticity of the apparitions?
Fr. Tomislav Vlasic admitted he's been involved in New Age since 2002 — back when he was still spiritual advisor to the Medjugorje seers.
Lionel: So this proves that the apparitions are fake?! Otherwise why would they be mentioned here?
Vlasic was eventually defrocked by Pope Benedict in 2009. In 2012, Vlasic released a video promoting the New Age movement Central Nucleus, and admits he's been involved in this since 2002 — back when he was still spiritual advisor to the Medjugorje seers.
Lionel: He was one of many spiritual advisers to the seers.The others are still Franciscans in good standing. An extraordinary priest, Fr. Slavko Barbaric ofm, was also an initial spiritual director of the seers. He has expired.Possibly Our Lady was also appearing to him.I knew him well.He was a saint.
On this second phase of the purported apparitions, the Vatican committee voted on two separate issues: (1) spiritual fruits, and (2) the conduct of the seers. On spiritual fruits, six members voted positively, while the remaining 10 said the fruits were a mix of positive and negative.
Lionel: So there were spiritual fruits even though for CMTV after the seven apparitions monitored, the rest was from Satan. Including the one in this video below?

Mirjana allegedly "seeing" Our Lady

(Lionel :According to Michael  it would be Mirjana above allegedly seeing the devil).

As to the conduct of the visionaries, 12 members said no opinion could be given, while two voted against the supernatural nature of the alleged visions. 
Just as significant, the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in charge of overseeing the faithful diffusion of Church teaching, is expressing skepticism over the authenticity of the Medjugorje visions. In Tornielli's words, Cdl. Gerhard Müller's opinion is "considered an authoritative contribution to be compared with other opinions and reports."
Lionel: Cardinal Muller has said that there will be no doctrinal judgment of the apparitions until they have ended.He has not condemned them with a negative verdict.
As critics have noted, the messages include questionable doctrinal content, including the fact that "Our Lady" regularly prays the "Our Father" with the seers — something Our Lady refused to do at the Church-approved apparition of Fatima, because it includes the line "forgive us our trespasses." As the Church teaches, Mary is without sin, so she could not ask for forgiveness of her sins.
Lionel: She was praying for the seers and us.
The Virgin also reportedly said, "All religions are equal before God" — espousing the heresy of indifferentism, explicitly condemned by the Church. She similarly remarked elsewhere, "It is you who are divided on this earth. The Muslims and the Orthodox, like the Catholics, are equal before my Son and before me, for you are all my children."
Lionel: I am glad it is said that she 'reportedly said'. When I personally asked Fr. Slavko Barbaric about this when I was in Medugorje, he denied it. He also denied other reports of this kind.
The Virgin also reportedly said, 'All religions are equal before God' — espousing the heresy of indifferentism.
Lionel: What about Pope Francis? No indifferentism and heresy has been noticed at CMTV? Only at Medugorje it is troublesome for CMTV?
She is also said to have offered the very protestant remark: "I do not dispose of all graces. ... Jesus prefers that you address your petitions directly to him, rather than through an intermediary."
Lionel: I don't remember this one and it was important for CMTV.
In spite of the generally negative view of the vast majority of the Medjugorje apparitions, the Vatican must consider how to deal pastorally with the millions of pilgrims who flock to the Bosnian town each year. In this regard, 13 commission members voted in favor of lifting the ban for pilgrimages there as well as establishing the parish as a pontifical sanctuary, with oversight by the Holy See, and which would not denote any recognition of the authenticity of the apparitions.
Lionel: The Commission was in favour of lifting the ban on pilgrimages ?! This sounds a wee bit positive and in favour of Medugorje.The Commission wants pilgrims to officially go to Medugorje!?
The final decision now rests with Pope Francis, who most recently appointed Poland's Abp. Henryk Hoser to undertake a special mission of the Holy See to "acquire more in-depth knowledge of the pastoral situation" and to "suggest any pastoral initiatives for the future." Hoser is expected to submit his conclusions to the Holy Father this summer, after which Pope Francis will make his decision.
On Saturday, on his return flight from Fatima, Portugal, the Holy Father expressed skepticism about Medjugorje.
Lionel: In what capacity does he express skepticism? Pope Francis does not have the supernatural ability to judge the apparitions.His statement indicates this. He cannot cite theology and doctrine as a measure, since he rejects both, openly.So what will be his criteria to judge Medugorje? Of course, it is only  'in my opinion'.
"The report has its doubts, but personally, I am a little worse," he told reporters. "I prefer Our Lady as mother, our mother, and not Our Lady as head of the post office who sends a message at a stated time."
He continued, "This isn't Jesus' mother. And these alleged apparitions don't have much value. I say this as a personal opinion, but it is clear. Who thinks that Our Lady says, 'Come, because tomorrow at this time I will give a message to that seer?' No!"
Lionel: He has only a personal opinion as a pope. Pope John Paul II also had a personal opinion of Medugorje too and it was positive.
-Lionel Andrades




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Medugorje : Irish priest with cancer healed completely

AUGUST 7, 2015



June 8, 2016
Hingham father writes about miracle pilgrimage (Boston Globe)

Video : Arthur Boyle Cancer Story at St. Agatha Parish (Youtube)
Medjugorje - Miracle of the Sun - May 2010 (1)
Miracle of Sun at Medjugorje
Sun Miracles captured on video!! (Medjugorje, Herzegovina) [Full Length]
Miracolo a Medjugorje - Dovete vedere questo per credere ... incredibile !!!

Sun Miracles captured on video!! (Medjugorje, Herzegovina) [Full Length]
June 28, 2016
MedjugorjeApparition Hill

The Silence of the Birds: the Powerful Experiences of an Atheist Doctor and Notre Dame’s Basketball Team in Medjugorje


August 9, 2015

Medugorje inspires girl to become Carmelite nun in cloistered order.Some pilgrims have become priests

(20:55) She took the name of Sister Pia of the Queen of Peace her
 mission is also to pray for Our Lady's intentions  says
 Terezija Gaziova.Some ( pilgrims) have become priests.


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