Wednesday, November 8, 2017

Vatican knows that the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus can be affirmed and interpreted with the rigorist interpretation even after Vatican Council II: but does not recognise this interpretation

In 2016 Pope Benedict clarified in public that the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was known to the missionaries in the 16th century was rejected with Vatican Council II for him.
So he wants us Catholics to irrationally interpret Vatican Council II and extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) with the possibilities are exceptions error.He mixes up de jure( in principle, theoretical cases) as being defacto and known in the present times. With this error he eliminates the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church and wants us to do the same.This is how we have to interpret Vatican Council II and extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
In 2012 I wrote the following blog post in which I interpreted Vatican Council II without the premise and so it was not a rupture with the dogma EENS for me. I assumed that this was also the rational understanding of Pope Benedict and I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Now after the 2016 statement it is clear that the Vatican does not recognise the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus any more.Since invincible ignorance(LG 16) and the baptism of desire (LG 14) are defacto exceptions.-L.A


FEBRUARY 21, 2012


The International Theological Commission of the Vatican in two of its position papers has referred to the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 of Pope Pius XII. The Letter mentions, the dogma and says it is infallible. Here is the text of the dogma.(1)

In this text of the dogma the Vatican is affirming the rigorist interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This was the literal interpretation of the popes, the Church Councils, Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14), Dominus Iesus 20, the Catechism of the Catholic Church 845, 846 etc. Pope Pius XII referred to the dogma as an infallible teaching.

However the ITC (2) assumes that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicit and known to us and so they believe it contradicts the thrice defined dogma. 
As mentioned in an earlier post on this blog invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are not exceptions to the dogma.

There can be no explicit, defacto, known cases of persons saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire. So it is not an issue with respect to the dogma, unless, it is made an issue and made to appear as explicit and known.

Here are the popes affirming the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

POPE PIUS IX (Allocution December 9th, 1854)

Pope Pius IX held the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and also affirmed the possibility of non Catholics being saved in invincible ignorance, cases of which are unknown to us and so are not explicit exceptions to the dogma.

Pope Pius IX was saying: (Defacto):'We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge…’ and (Dejure): ‘we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord...'

Defacto (explicitly) everyone needs to enter the Church for salvation (to avoid Hell) and de jure (in principle) and known only to God, there could be non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance etc, ‘in certain circumstances’ (Letter of the Holy Office 1949).


(Defacto) 8. ‘… no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church – Quanto Conficamur, Pope Pius IX 1863

(Dejure) 7. ‘… those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments...-Quanto Conficamur


The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 issued during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII mentions ‘the dogma', the 'infallible statement'.

Here is the ‘dogma’:

(Defacto) '... it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

‘… none of those existing outside the Catholic Church... can have a share in life eternal... unless before death they are joined with Her... No one... can be saved, unless he (Defacto) remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

(Dejure) ‘… when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire…’

These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members,(Defacto) and those who are united to the Church only by desire (Dejure).- Letter of the Holy Office 1949 


(Defacto) ‘The Church…is necessary for salvation… faith and baptism…for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church.’- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.

(Dejure) ‘…those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God…’ -Lumen Gentium 16

‘Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church…’- Lumen Gentium 16

If one uses the irrational defacto-defacto analysis of the above magisterial texts instead of the traditional dejure-defacto interpretation it would mean the popes contradicted themselves and that Vatican Council II contradicted an ex cathedra dogma. It would be a criticism of the infallibility of the popes ex cathedra. It would also be contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction. It is heresy to claim that there are defacto exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

With the defacto-dejure analysis we see that the Magisterial texts affirm the centuries-old interpretation of the Church Fathers, the saints, the popes and Councils, including Vatican Council II. This was the traditional interpretation of Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston. This is the teaching of Pope John Paul II's Dominus Iesus (20) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church 845,846 and also during the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI in Responses to Some questions regarding certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church (2007).

With invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire ‘out of the way’ the Catholic Church has not retracted the thrice defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

It is “practically” impossible to know any case saved with the baptism of desire or in ivincible ignorance said a priest of the religious community in Rome, Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate.

Last week two Dominican priests at the Basilica Santa Maria Sopra Minevra, Rome said that these extra ordinary cases are known only to God.

So if it means if I meet a non Catholic on the street I know that he is oriented to Hell unless he converts into the Catholic Church before death. This is the official teaching of the Catholic Church before and after Vatican Council II(for me).

It means all non Catholics on earth need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation and it is only God who can judge who is in invincible ignorance and who knew about Jesus and the Church but refused to enter.

It also means that we cannot say ‘only those who know and do not enter are oriented to Hell’ and then assume that most non Catholics 'do not know’.The dogma and other magisterial texts mention no defacto exceptions(for me).

If the exceptions were known on earth then we could say ‘only those who know’. The Rome Vicariate on its website says only those who ‘know’ need to enter the Church to avoid Hell. Since, the Vicariate wrongly assumes that cases of invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are known to us on earth.So these 'known' people do not have to enter the Church according to them.

Fr.Leonard Feeney was correct in saying that the baptism of desire is not an exception to the dogma outside the church no salvation.

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1257 (The Necessity of Baptism), Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger expected us to use the defacto-dejure analysis to avoid clashing with the Principle of Non Contradiction.Liberals wrongly use the defacto-defacto interpretation.(Note Oct.6,2017. However in 2016 Pope Benedict clarified in the Avvenire interview that he wanted us to use the irrational defacto-defacto interpretation)

In Responses to Some questions regarding certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church (2007) Pope Benedict XVI was saying that the Church of Christ is the Catholic Church (subsistist it). Subsistist it is ‘indirectly related’ to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus says a Jesuit priest, on his website.
Lionel Andrades


“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) from

Rev. Luis F. Ladaria, S.J. (president);
Image result for Photo Cardinal Ladaria S.j
A. "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus"

64. Jesus linked the proclamation of the kingdom of God with his Church. After Jesus' death and resurrection, the reunion of the people of God, now in the name of Jesus Christ, took place. The Church of Jews and gentiles was understood as a work of God and as the community in which one experienced the action of the Lord exalted in the heavens and his Spirit. With faith in Jesus Christ, the universal mediator of salvation, was joined baptism in his name; this mediated participation in his redemptive death, pardon of sins and entrance into the community of salvation (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5). For this reason baptism is compared with the ark of salvation (1 Pet 3:20ff.). According to the New Testament, the necessity of the Church for salvation is based on the unique salvific mediation of Jesus.

65. One speaks of the necessity of the Church for salvation in two senses: the necessity of belonging to the Church for those who believe in Jesus and the necessity for salvation of the ministry of the Church which, on mission from God, must be at the service of the coming of the kingdom of God.

66. In his encyclical Mystici Corporis, Pius XII addresses the question, How are those who attain salvation outside visible communion with the Church related to her? He says (De jure) that they are oriented to the mystical body of Christ by a yearning and desire of which they are not aware (DS 3821). The opposition of the American Jesuit Leonard Feeney, who insisted on the exclusivist interpretation of the expression extra ecclesiam nulla salus, (Update :Nov.8,2017 Defacto every one needs to enter and de jure or defacto there are no known exceptions) afforded the occasion for the letter of the Holy Office, dated 8 August ,1949, to the archbishop of Boston, which rejected Feeney's interpretation and clarified the teaching of Pius XII. The letter distinguishes between the necessity of belonging to the Church for salvation (necessitas praecepti)(dejure) and the necessity of the indispensable means of salvation (intrinseca necessitas)(still a dejure reference here) ; in relationship to the latter, the Church is a general help for salvation (DS 3867—69)(dejure). In the case of invincible ignorance the implicit desire of belonging to the Church suffices; this desire will always be present when a man aspires to conform his will to that of God (DS 3870)(dejure). But faith, in the sense of Hebrews 11:6, and love are always necessary with intrinsic necessity (DS 3872).

67. Vatican Council II makes its own the expression extra ecclesiam nulla salus. But in using it the council explicitly directs itself to Catholics(?) and limits its validity to those who know(possibilities are exceptions, dejure cases are defacto known) the necessity of the Church for salvation. The council holds that the affirmation is based on the necessity of faith and of baptism affirmed by Christ (LG 14). In this way the council aligned itself in continuity with the teaching of Pius XII(it assumed that when Mystici Corporis of Pius XII was referring to dejure cases, since this was common sense, it had to re-interpreted as being defacto and practical exceptions) , but emphasized more clearly the original parenthentical character of this expression(?).

68. In contrast to Pius XII, the council refused to speak of a votum implicitum (implicit desire) and applied the concept of the votum only to the explicit desire of catechumens to belong to the Church (LG 14)(Dejure). With regard to non-Christians, it said that they are ordered in diverse ways to the people of God. In accord with the different ways with which the salvific will of God embraces non-Christians(De jure), the council distinguished four groups: first, Jews; second, Muslims; third, those who without fault are ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and do not know the Church but who search for God with a sincere heart and try to fulfill his will as known through conscience; fourth, those who without fault have not yet reached an express knowledge of God but who nonetheless try to lead a good life (LG 16).

69. The gifts which God offers all men for directing themselves to salvation are rooted, according to the council, in his universal salvific will (LG 2, 3, 26; AG 7)(De jure references). The fact that even non-Christians are ordered to the people of God (in theory only , de jure)  is rooted in the fact that the universal call to salvation includes the vocation of all men to the catholic unity of the people of God (LG 13). The council holds that the close relationship of both vocations is rooted in the unique mediation of Christ, who in his body that is the Church makes himself present in our midst (LG 14).(This still does not mean that de facto every one needs to be a member of the Church for salvation with no known exceptions)

70. Thus the original meaning is restored to the expression extra ecclesiam nulla salus, namely, that of exhorting the members of the Church to be faithful(False.It is denied with dejure cases being assumed to defacto exceptions).31 Once this expression is integrated into the more universal extra Christum nulla salus(the universal extra ecclesiam nulla salus for Ladaria is assuming de jure cases are defacto exceptions to the traditional interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus), it is no longer in contradiction to the universal call of all men to salvation.(False it suggests that there is a universal call for salvation but there are exceptions with the baptism of desire, invincible ignorance etc.This is irrational and heretical.It is an innovation in the Catholic Church)


2.3. The Need for the Church

57. Catholic tradition has constantly affirmed that the Church is necessary for salvation as the historical mediation of the redemptive work of Jesus Christ. This conviction found its classical expression in the adage of St. Cyprian: “Salus extra Ecclesiam non est”(sic).[87] The Second Vatican Council has reiterated this faith conviction: “Basing itself on Scripture and tradition, it [the Council] teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door.(Defacto) Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it” (LG 14)(De jure reference so it is irrelevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and not just an aphorism). The Council expounded the mystery of the Church at length: “The Church, in Christ, is in the nature of [a] sacrament - a sign and instrument, that is, of communion with God and of the unity among all men” (LG 1)(Dejure); “Just as Christ carried out the work of redemption in poverty and oppression, so the Church is called to follow the same path if she is to communicate the fruits of salvation to men” (LG 8)(Dejure). “Rising from the dead (cf. Rom 6:9) he [Christ] sent his life-giving Spirit upon his disciples and through him set up his Body which is the Church as the universal sacrament of salvation” (LG 48). What is striking in these quotations is the universal extent of the Church’s mediating role in ministering God’s salvation: “the unity among all men”, “salvation of [all] men”, “universal sacrament of salvation”.(These are all de jure terms.They are vague theoretical references.So they are not exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. They do not contradict Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

58. In the face of new problems and situations and of an exclusive interpretation of the adage: “salus extra ecclesiam non est”(sic),[88] the magisterium, in recent times, has articulated a more nuanced understanding ( Dejure cases as defacto exceptions, possibilities are known examples of salvation outside the Church) as to the manner in which a saving relationship with the Church can be realized. The Allocution of Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quadam (1854) clearly states the issues involved: “It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it, will perish in the flood(Defacto every one needs to enter for salvation). On the other hand, it must likewise be held as certain that those who live in ignorance of the true religion, if such ignorance be invincible, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord”.[89](They are de jure cases, hypothetical cases so they are not exceptions to the previous passage on the need for all to formally enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell. Fr.Ladaria will mistake what is not defacto and known as being known.This was the error of the liberal theologians.)

59. The Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston (1949) offers further specifications. “To gain eternal salvation, it is not always required that a person be incorporated in reality (reapse) as a member of the Church(This is heresy.It is assumed de jure cases are defacto exceptions to the dogma defined by three Church Councils) , but it is necessary that one belong to it at least in desire and longing (voto et desiderio)(Dejure). It is not always necessary that this desire be explicit as it is with catechumens.(It is always unknown, since the catechumen is unknown.We cannot know of any catechumen saved as such) When one is invincibly ignorant, God also accepts an implicit desire, so called because it is contained in the good disposition of soul by which a person wants his or her will to be conformed to God’s will”.[90](De jure)

60. The universal salvific will of God, realized through Jesus Christ, in the Holy Spirit, which includes the Church as the universal sacrament of salvation, finds expression in Vatican II: “All men are called to this Catholic unity which prefigures and promotes universal peace. And in different ways to it belong, or are related: all the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ and finally all mankind called by God’s grace to salvation” (LG 13). That the unique and universal mediation of Jesus Christ is realized in the context of a relationship with the Church is further reiterated by the post-Conciliar papal magisterium. Speaking of those who have not had the opportunity to come to know or accept Gospel revelation – even in their case, the encyclical Redemptoris Missio has this to say: “Salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace ... which has a mysterious relationship to the Church”(Redemptoris Missio was based on the possibilities are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, new theology.It mixed up de jure references as being practical, defacto exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was interpreted for example by the missionaries and magisterium of the 16th century).

NOVEMBER 6, 2017

Image result for Diocese of Worcester Photos of Bishop Mcmanus

Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger's Redemptoris Missio and Dominus Iesus were written with the 'possibilities are exceptions' error.

 NOVEMBER 8, 2017

Vatican needs to apologise for the excommunication of Fr. Leonard Feeney and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

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