Wednesday, June 20, 2018

Repost : Robert Spencer made the common mistake on Vatican Council II

JUNE 3, 2015

Robert Spencer made the common mistake on Vatican Council II

There is no denial from Robert Spencer.
He made the common mistake on Vatican Council II.
He assumed that (A) being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire were exceptions to (B) the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Feeneyite version.This was his understanding of Vatican Council II when he wrote a book with Daniel Ali. So my guess initially was correct.
His theology and interpretation of Vatican Council II, as a Catholic was irrational.
Every one needs to be a card carrying member of the Catholic Church is the teaching of Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) unless one assumes that the dead-saved are personally visible and known in June 2015, to be exceptions to this traditional Catholic teaching. Spencer is holding on to appartion theology which changes the interpretation of Vatican Council II on Islam and Judaism.Spencer is using the liberal Marchetti model.This is also the common secular model used by the mainline newspapers.
Vatican Council II without the Marchetti error, would  be in conflict with the leftist political values and also that of the Vatican. 
Robert Spencer is not interpreting Vatican Council II without the Marchetti model and may be  he needs time to review all this.This may have come upon him too fast. It is definitely new for him.
It is clear, from his silence,  that he is using the same irrationality in interpretating Vatican Council II as Pope Francis and the leadership in the Catholic Church.Without the irrationality, pre-Vatican Council II and post Vatican Council II teachings on Islam, for example, have not changed.
Presently Catholics quote the popes and saints on Islam. They do not quote Vatican Council II, even though they can.The same with Judaism and other religions.
Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14) still promotes an ecumenism of return, as in pre-Vatican Council II times.
Avoid apparition theology, Marchetti's false inference, and Vatican Council II is traditional.This could be new for Spencer. May be over time he will correct his position.
If Robert Spencer held this rational view would it be considered anti-Semitic ?
The Jewish Left media and political and social institutions are using Marchetti's model in the interpretation of Vatican Council II in which Aconflicts with B.
For me Vatican Council II is in agreement with the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, which Pope Pius XII called an 'infallible teaching' in the first part of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949, which supported Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston.
 Since were exceptions to B for Spencer , it means A refers to explicit cases in the present times. It refers to defacto, known cases who are exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Church to be saved from Hell-otherwise how could they be exceptions ?.Spencer is irrational since these persons (A) would be in Heaven and would be unknown to us human beings.
'Zero cases of something cannot be exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus' says the apologist and biblical scholar John Martignoni.
For Robert Spencer does not refer to zero cases. If they referred to zero cases they would not be relevant to the dogma.They would not be exceptions.Since there are exceptions for Robert Spencer there are no zero cases.
For me is not in conflict with B.This is how it was before 1949. So for me there are no exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to the rigorist, traditional interpretation of the dogma on exclusive salvation. The Church still teaches, in the text of Vatican Council II, that all Muslims and other non Catholics need to formally convert into the Church with 'faith and baptism' to avoid Hell and go to Heaven. It is Vatican Council II (AG 7, LG 14) which is saying that all Muslims and Jews need to be card carrying members of the Church for salvation.It is not just the popes and saints of the past. It is Vatican Council II which indicates that all people alive today in 2015, need to get their names on the parish baptism register, to go to Heaven.There are no exceptions and cannot be any known exception in the present times.
I repeat have written this not to criticize Robert Spencer but so that he takes note of this and in his future book on apologetics for Catholics, with reference to Islam, mentions these concepts.He needs to tell Muslims and Jews, that they are all going to Hell with no known exception in the present times, and that this is the official teaching of the Catholic Church, not according to the contemporary magisterium, but according to magisterial texts, Church documents, which are part of the Deposit of the Faith.This is the teaching of the Catholic Church also according to common sense and with no claims of being able to see apparitions.
-Lionel Andrades

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