Saturday, August 11, 2018

How can Louie Verrecchio and the SSPX call themselves traditionalists?

The Society of St. Pius X(SSPX) is still selling a book by Fr. Francois Laisney published by the Angelus Press which assumes invisible cases of the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) are visible exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Image result for Photo Louie Verrecchio
This is also the mistake Louie Verrecchio makes.
Then there is the Angelus Conference in October at which Bishop Bernard Fellay will be present.The speakers and participants, like at previous conferences, will assume LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2,GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II, are visible exceptions to Feeneyite EENS.They would allegedly know of people saved outside the Church in the present times.
A hypothetical person is an exception to the dogma EENS or someone in the past who allegedly went to Heaven without the baptism of water, is an exception to all needing to be members of the Church in 2018.Possibilities of salvation outside the Church, known only to God, are concrete cases in the present times ?.
This is the mistake Louie Verrecchio also makes.
After so many blog posts on this subject he cannot think straight on this subject.
But it is not just his fault. Where can he go for help?
I can affirm BOD, BOB and I.I, like Louie and the SSPX, but they refer to physically visible people.I don't. Without allegedly knowing physically visible people saved outside the Church, there cannot be an exceptions to EENS in the present times. For the 'magisterium' too EENS has exceptions.
But over the centuries the popes did not consider BOD, BOB and I.I as referring to known people saved in the present times. How could they refer to known people in the present times, when there are no such people?
So when Louie and the SSPX bishops and priests read the Catechism of Pope Pius X they interpret BOD,BOB and I.I as objective people saved outside the Church.So there are exceptions for them as there were exceptions for Fr. Francois Laisney.

TRADITIONALISTS CONTRADICT THE CATECHISM OF POPE PIUS X
The Catechism of Pope Pius X becomes a rupture with the Syllabus of Errors on an ecumenism of return and there being no salvation outside the Church for non Christians.BOD, BOB and I.I are exceptions.This would be heresy in the 16th century. But it is the official position today of the SSPX and Louie Verrecchio.

TRADITIONALISTS REJECT THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS
Imagine this -Louie Verrecchio and the SSPX are contradicting the Syllabus and there is no denial from them.
I have mentioned this before. The alleged traditionalists are contradicting the Syllabus by using an irrational premise in the interpretation of BOD, BOB and I.I.
The Catechism of Pope Pius X mentions invincible ignorance for example.This is visible for them invincible ignorance cases(otherwise how could they be exceptions to EENS) and so there is a rupture with the dogma EENS as it was known to the missionaries and Magisterium in the 16th century.For the Jesuits in the Middle Ages there were no exceptions.

THEY AFFIRM THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE WITH HERESY
Then Louie and the SSPX affirm the Letter of the Holy Office 1949  which says everyone does not need to be a member of the Catholic Church for salvation.This is heresy again.
Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member- Letter of the Holy Office 1949
How can Louie Verrecchio and the SSPX call themselves traditionalists?-Lionel Andrades



AUGUST 11, 2018



Vatican Council II has to be read carefully.Be aware of the error in the text which has come from 1949-Boston

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/vatican-council-ii-has-to-be-read.html


Repost : In March 2016 Pope Benedict expressed formal heresy : so according to Cardinal Burke he ceases by that act to be the Pope. It's automatic.

JANUARY 2, 2018

In March 2016 Pope Benedict expressed formal heresy : so according to Cardinal Burke he ceases by that act to be the Pope. It's automatic.

Image result for Photo of the pope with the orginal Argentinian divorced and remarried couple.


In March 2016 Pope Benedict expressed formal heresy in public when he said  or inferred that1) that the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus is no more like it was for the missionaries in the 16th century,2) there was 'a development 'with Vatican Council II and 3) there were examples of known salvation outside the Church,making him to question mission.These examples of known salvation outside the  Church for him were exceptions to EENS as it was known in the Middle Ages.Since they were mentioned in Vatican Council II, the Council was ' a development', for him.
He rejects the dogma EENS of the past by assuming hypothetical and physically invisible cases of being saved with the baptism of desire(BOD),baptism of blood(BOB) and in invincible ignorance(I.I) are known people, saved outside the Church and so are exceptions to EENS.With this irrationality he contradicts the authentic magisterium over the centuries.
Then he re-interprets LG 16, GS 22 etc inChristianity and the World Religions and The Hope of Salvation of Infants who Die Without Being Baptised( International Theological Commission). He  assumes LG 16 and GS 22 refer to known cases of salvation outside the Church, when they can only be un-known for us humans and known only to God.Again with the same irrationality, of assuming invisible people are visible, he rejects the dogma EENS as it was known to the magisterium of the past.He suggests that there is salvation outside the Church and questions the need for mission.
This is heresy. This is public heresy.
Even after many reports on this subject he did not state on March 2016 in the Avvenire interview that:-
1) The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus has not changed since the 16th century.It  is the same.
2) There is no development with Vatican Council II since hypothetical cases cannot be mistaken to be exceptions to EENS.
He could not say this since his Catechism of the Catholic Church(1994) and other magisterial documents he issued is based on BOD, BOB and I.I referring to known people saved outside the Church.

For Pope Benedict possibilities in the past, hypothetical cases, were known exceptions to the dogma EENS in the present times.
How can people in the past, and possibilities too, be exceptions to EENS in 2018?
For me as a Catholic who affirms Vatican Council II, the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus has not changed and it is the same as it was for the missionaries and magisterium of the 16th century.
There is no development with Vatican Council II.The Council, without the irrational premise, is in harmony with the strict interpretation ofextra ecclesiam nulla salus.
The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 made a mistake and this was also the wrong understanding of EENS, of some or many of the Church Fathers at Vatican Council II, including Pope Benedict .
However the text of Vatican Council II can be interpreted in harmony with the past ecclesiology of the Church and Pope Benedict did not choose to do this in March 2016.
So according to Cardinal Burke's statement Pope Benedict has formally expressed heresy...
But we must not be quick to judge and condemn him since the same error is made by Pope Francis,Cardinal Luiz Ladaria, Cardinal Muller and Cardinal Burke himself.-Lionel Andrades



JANUARY 2, 2018

They all judged wrong in March 2016 and now they want to judge exceptions to mortal sin and support Amoris Laetitia  

 http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/they-all-judged-wrong-in-december-2017.html


JANUARY 2, 2018


The new Catholic faith in salvation and morals of Pope Benedict, Cardinal Muller and Rocco Buttiglione

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/the-new-catholic-faith-in-salvation-and.html


JANUARY 2, 2018


Pope Benedict praised Cardinal Muller for defending a false 'faith'

Image result for Photo of Cushingite heresy
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/01/pope-benedict-praised-cardinal-muller.html












Image result for Photo of Cushingite heresy

Repost : I do not refute BOD, BOB and I.I since they are not known cases for me. They do not contradict EENS,I am comfortable with them.

 JANUARY 3, 2018

I do not refute BOD, BOB and I.I since they are not known cases for me. They do not contradict EENS,I am comfortable with them.


Lionel, I dont believe you really understand what you are arguing against. Your
repeated reference to visible cases in 2017 is a straw man argument.

Lionel.
I thought you agreed with me - there are no physically visible cases of BOD in 2017.
there were none in 2016 and there are none in 2018.
We cannot physically see someone saved with BOD, I.I or BOB.
Do we agree on this?
What ever are the other inferences that follow, which we accept or do  not accept, fundamentally, we agree that there are no physically visible people saved with BOD in 2017-2018 ?

___________________________


 I am not arguing that there are 2017 cases which can be known with absolute certainty.

Lionel: Are they known or not known ? Are there physically visible cases known to someone on earth?
____________________________

 I am saying that they become known only when the Church canonizes a dead
catechumem.
Lionel: O.K so you are saying that if the Church canonizes someone in 2018 and announces that this person was saved with the BOD and without the baptism of water then it would known. You mean it would be known as a possibility, in faith.
Only as a possibility or are you saying that someone in the Church would physically see such a person?
____________________________


 Also you err when you refer to these cases as "saved outside the
church" and that is actually the fundamental error in your position.
Lionel: No one is saved outside the Church for me. I affirm EENS.
_____________________________

 Canonized catechumens are saved in the Church because there is no salvation outside of
her.
Lionel : Duh!

In summary

1. I agree there are no visible cases in 2017 known with absolute certainty
(although I could argue for moral probabilities in some known cases). 
Lionel: What do you mean by absolute certaintity, are they known or not known, are they visible or not visible, can they be objectively seen or not seen?
___________________________


But you attempt to use this point to refute BOD in toto, and that doesnt work because of
point 2.

Lionel: I only accept BOD as a possibility, in theory, as a hypothetical case. It cannot be anything else for me.Since it is hypothetical it does not contradict EENS. So it is not a problem for me. I do not have to reject it. I can afirm Feeneyite EENS and also BOD.
I affirm BOD, BOB and I.I.They are not physically visible people for me.
________________________

2. There ARE known cases in the cases of canonized catechumens who were martyred
before water baptism.
Lionel: You accept this in faith, as a possibility.
For me there are no physically visible cases in 2018 and there could not be any in 1965,1949  or when someone suggested there were such cases, and mentioned it in the Martryology of the saints, just as they have mentioned it in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which has been placed in the Denzinger.
________________________

3. These cases are not exceptions to EENS because of the dogma of EENS. These
saints were joined to the Church quoad se.
Lionel: They are not exceptions to EENS for me too.
So you are saying that BOD, BOB and I.I are not exceptions to EENS since they are not physically visible cases(as it is for me) and that those who consider them as being exceptions to EENS are wrong e.g SSPX, Pope Benedict, CDF etc?
____________________________

So your continued appeal to no known cases in 2017 is a straw man argument that
cannot refute BOD.
Lionel. I do not refute BOD, BOB and I.I since they are not known cases for me. They do not contradict EENS,I am comfortable with them. If they happened to be known people in the present times, saved outside the Church, then only they could be exceptions to EENS.

So for me there is no known salvation outside the Church, also for you? 
-Lionel Andrades
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/01/i-do-not-refute-bod-bob-and-ii-since.html

Vatican Council II has to be read carefully.Be aware of the error in the text which has come from 1949-Boston.

The moment you say that the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) are exceptions  to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) you infer that there are known people for you or someone else, saved outside the Church, saved without the baptism of water and Catholic faith.
In general Catholics make this mistake. Even when they interpret Vatican Council II they infer that LG 8 refer to objective people saved outside the Church.
They read Vatican Council II literally at face value.
Image result for Photo of Louie Verrecchio
Recently on a blog post Louie Verrecchio interpreted Unitatis Redintigratio 3 literally.Bishop Fellay does the same. It can be read on the Internet.
"But Vatican Council II says this ?", could be a response.
It does.
But I interpret it(UR 3) as referring to a hypothetical case.So it is not an exception to an ecumenism of return, outside the Church there is no salvation for non Catholics, inter-faith marriages being adultery,the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Catholic Church being a reason to proclaim the Social Reign of Christ the King and the non separation of Church and State.
So it is the same text but Louie Verrecchio's reads UR 3 as referring to a  visible and known person while for me it is an unknown person.For Louie it is an exception to EENS, for me it is not.
"So then why did Vatican Council II mention it?", it may be asked.
Since they made a mistake at the Council.
They picked up the error from the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.It assumed hypothetical cases of BOD, BOB and I.I were practical exceptions to Feeneyite EENS. This was false.The Church Fathers and saints did not say this.
They simply mentioned BOD, BOB and I.I in answer to questions. Obviously they are hypothetical cases. This is a given. But they were not hypothetical for the liberal theologians at Boston in the 1940's.
So at Vatican Council II in principle they assumed invincible ignorance(LG 16), the case of the unknown catechumen, (LG 14) etc, were not hypothetical cases.They then extended the list to UR 3, LG 8, NA 2, GS 22 etc.The liberals interpreted them as non hypothetical and objective non Catholics saved outside the Church, without 'faith and baptism'(AG 7).They did not and could not know any such person.
Louie Verrecchio objects to the text of UR 3 suggesting there is salvation outside the Church and for him this is  heresy.Visible- for- him UR 3 results in a heretical conclusion.It  is a rupture with EENS for him.

But not for me.Since I do not make the same mistake as Louie. UR 3 and Vatican Council II is not a rupture with EENS for me. Since I only see a theoretical case.
Vatican Council II has to be read carefully.Be aware of the error in the text  which has come from 1949-Boston.
This is unprecedented.Objective errors have been discovered in Vatican Council II.I am referring not just to theology.Faulty reasoning has created a new theology.There are errors made in principle.As a norm it seeps throughout the Council-text.
In principle the Vatican Council II Fathers assumed hypothetical cases were not hypothetical but objectively visible.
In principle they assumed people in Heaven are objectively visible on earth.
In principle they assumed that we can know of non Catholics on earth saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.
In general, as a norm, the Principle of Non Contradiction was violated.1
-Lionel Andrades



1

 DECEMBER 13, 2016

Too many mistakes in Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2016/12/too-many-mistakes-in-vatican-council-ii.html


Unprecedented! Philosophical mistakes discovered in Vatican Council II

https://gloria.tv/article/eAHi1jMeN3fG1fWPDjpAb6e2o

DECEMBER 15, 2016
Sedevacantist Bishop Donald Sanborn unaware of many philosophical errors in Vatican Council 
eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/…/sedevacantist-b…

DECEMBER 14, 2016

Catholic professors in Rome now tell lies : pontifical universities don't want to be quoted on a philosophical subject

eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/…/there-are-objec…

DECEMBER 13, 2016

PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTIONS FOR A PROFESSOR OF PHILOSOPHY : ASK HIM ABOUT MISTAKES IN VATICAN COUNCIL II

eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/…/philosophical-q…

DECEMBER 13, 2016

Traditionalists too unaware of major philosophical mistake : many errors in Vatican Council II

eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/…/traditionalists…

DECEMBER 13, 2016
Vatican to house two Popes for first time as Benedict returns
Too many mistakes in Vatican Council II

eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/…/too-many-mistak…

DECEMBER 12, 2016

Vatican Council II riddled with philosphical error : two popes in principle support objective error in text

eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/…/vatican-council…

DECEMBER 11, 2016

The source of the present Arian-like heresy throughout the Church today is due to the following points

eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/…/the-source-of-p…
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JULY 27, 2018



Principle of Non Contradiction is violated in the official interpretation of Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/07/principle-of-non-contradiction-is.html

FEBRUARY 14, 2018

To re- interpret Vatican Council II and switch from Cushingism to Feneeyism as a theology review your understanding of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 -1
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/to-reinterpret-vatican-council-ii-and.html

FEBRUARY 14, 2018

To re-interpret Vatican Council II and switch from Cushingism to Feeneyism as a theology review your understanding of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 - 2
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/february-19-2015-contents-of-letter-of.html

FEBRUARY 14, 2018



To re-interpret Vatican Council II and switich from Cushingism to Feeneyism as a theology review your understanding of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 -3

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/to-re-interpret-vatican-council-ii-and.html

FEBRUARY 14, 2018
To re-interpret Vatican Council II and switch from Cushingism to Feeneyism as a theology review your understanding of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 -4
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/june-21-2014-catholic-religious.html

FEBRUARY 15, 2018
To re-interpret Vatican Council II and switch from Cushingism to Feeneyism as a theology review your understanding of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 -5
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2018/02/to-re-interpret-vatican-council-ii-and_15.html

SEPTEMBER 1, 2017


Catholic professors of philosophy and theology admit the Magisterium made a mistake but do not want to say so in public : Philosophical mistake is also there in the text of Vatican Council II

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2017/09/catholic-professors-of-philosophy-and.html

 JANUARY 4, 2017


Professors of Philosophy at the pontifical universities in Rome are still refusing to answer simple philosophical questions
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2017/01/professors-of-philosophy-at-pontifical.html

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AUGUST 10, 2018


The moment you say that BOD, BOB and I.I are exceptions to EENS you infer that they refer to known people, visible people saved outside the Catholic Church : invisible people cannot be exceptions (Grafics)

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-moment-you-say-that-bod-bob-and-ii.html


AUGUST 10, 2018


Chris Ferrara, Mons.Clifford Joseph Fenton, Fr. John Hardon, Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Michael Davis, Dietrich von Hildebrand, Attila Guimares, Fr. Nicholas Gruner, John Vennari and others did not know about it

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/chris-ferrara-monsclifford-joseph.html

AUGUST 9, 2018



Abp.Lefebvre's writings now obsolete. He did not know about Vatican Council II and the baptism of desire without the false premise (Graphics)

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/abplefebvres-writings-now-obsolete-he.html


AUGUST 8, 2018



Would the CDF and the traditionalists consider the interpretation of Vatican Council II with visible and known BOD, BOB and I.I as being irrational and non traditional? (Graphics)



http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/would-cdf-and-traditionalists-consider.html

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 AUGUST 6, 2018


Doesn't Louie see his heresy somewhere in all this?http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/doesnt-louie-see-his-heresy-somewhere.html


Bishop Fellay: A troubling interview


https://akacatholic.com/bishop-fellay-interview/



JULY 31, 2018

AKA Catholic


UR 3 with Cushingism is heretical since it rejects the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.With Feeneyism it is not heretical
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/07/ur-3-with-cushingism-is-heretical-since.html



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