tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.comments2024-03-18T08:45:47.544+01:00eucharistandmissionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger1117125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-47987190472629621402021-08-13T12:11:45.210+01:002021-08-13T12:11:45.210+01:00should I be sedevacantist if no, then why?
Also M...should I be sedevacantist if no, then why?<br /><br />Also MHFM condems Vatican IIAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-31780899681665464732021-08-13T12:11:26.893+01:002021-08-13T12:11:26.893+01:00should I be sedevacantist if no, then why?
Also M...should I be sedevacantist if no, then why?<br /><br />Also MHFM condems Vatican IIAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-18561404437969874992021-08-13T12:09:57.633+01:002021-08-13T12:09:57.633+01:00hello i cant decide between sedevacantism and bein...hello i cant decide between sedevacantism and being part of Vatican II<br /><br /><br />MHFM says anyone part of Vatican II will go to hellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-2107732429845618262021-07-29T14:34:26.761+01:002021-07-29T14:34:26.761+01:00 You are correct about everything that you wrote e... You are correct about everything that you wrote except for your<br />Comments referencing Father Feeney...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18205654534119509224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-9897092199338247812021-05-12T17:19:58.099+01:002021-05-12T17:19:58.099+01:00Help me not to murmur in my tent
Help me not to fo...<br />Help me not to murmur in my tent<br />Help me not to foolishly blame God<br />Help me not to ask why<br />Help me to walk by faith and not by sight<br /><br />† <b>†</b>†<br /><br />O ^.^<br /> |< ° ° ^.^<br />/\ ° ° ◦<o ◦<o<br /> O\ O\<br /><a href="http://matthewrevelation.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow"><br />Matthew 4 [8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;<br /><br />Revelation 3 [17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:<br /></a><br /> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br /><a href="http://matthew-revelation.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow"> <b> LOOk here, and don't look away!</b></a><br /><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<br /><br /><a href="http://billionairesonparade.blogspot.com/2018/10/2018.html" rel="nofollow"><i>your favorite <b>Billionaires !</b></i></a><br /><br /> <a href="mailto:scratchwiththechickens@gmail.com?subject=Thanks%20for%20commenting&body=dear%20%20Steve,%0D%0AHow%20dare%20you%20comment%20on%20my%20blog%3F%21%0D%0Ai_would_love_to_kknow_your_thoughts.%0D%0Aso_nice_of_you_to_stop_by%0D%0A" rel="nofollow">scratchwiththechickens@gmail.com <br>Well, touch my feathers<br> Seeking research funding </a><br /><br /> !Unknown Soldierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00796210982427639682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-37375235856544399492021-04-14T01:52:27.779+01:002021-04-14T01:52:27.779+01:00My grandpa died a Lutheran. The horror on his fac...My grandpa died a Lutheran. The horror on his face when he passed was terrifying. And he thought hr was a Christian!<br /><br />I hate protestantsAndromeda Organahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503438651279154317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-79794681501191289042019-11-15T16:22:36.935+01:002019-11-15T16:22:36.935+01:00This great man shows that from the greatest depths...This great man shows that from the greatest depths one can be glimpsed into the glory of God, and even God is there with us in the greatest depths!Abonyi Tiborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01745650683059553675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-71627590807138877492019-11-11T14:21:03.495+01:002019-11-11T14:21:03.495+01:00My late mother became a "relationship addict,...My late mother became a "relationship addict," after my father died and lived in sin with a charming, despicable bad boy for the rest of her life. She suffered a stroke and was paralyzed. Fortunately, I placed her in a nursing home that had a daily rosary with a homemade shrine to the Blessed Mother with a picture of Pope John Paul, II. Every day, the aides would wheel her to the rosary and in that condition she was receptive and reverant. Whenever I get angry and start hating her, I try to remember her in that setting. She made shipwreak of her faith, but there is a Purgatory. The Protestants worship a fake Jesus, the Orthodox allow divorce. Leave whats wrong in the Catholic Church and you leave the Deposit of Faith.Swanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10754499307819481238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-32318006493148916202019-03-15T00:33:06.014+01:002019-03-15T00:33:06.014+01:00Yes Lionel,
There are only Catholics in Heaven is...Yes Lionel,<br /><br />There are only Catholics in Heaven is correct teaching!<br /><br />In Christ,<br /><br />George BrennerGeorge Brennerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11647841084127667278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-78677136824476923492019-01-01T15:55:24.409+01:002019-01-01T15:55:24.409+01:00Happy New Year! I didn't see a way to subscri...Happy New Year! I didn't see a way to subscribe to your blog, so please kindly inform. Thank you.Catholic galhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18263915832123137047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-34934453678426544712018-09-23T10:09:15.928+01:002018-09-23T10:09:15.928+01:00This is the Father Gobbi Blue Book russian edition...This is the Father Gobbi Blue Book russian edition in pdf, please spread it: www.russianbluebook.mlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-31803436708460293322016-11-03T11:24:05.112+01:002016-11-03T11:24:05.112+01:00Yes, of course, after Our Lord we listen to and ob...Yes, of course, after Our Lord we listen to and obey the Pope, unless the Pope is a manifest HERETIC like the one we unfortunately have now! Then it is our right and our duty to ignore and even publicly disobey and resist him. Resist him to his face. Apollonia Carusonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-49463518129090481262016-09-24T15:03:24.341+01:002016-09-24T15:03:24.341+01:00Mundabor has no comment and cannot correct me
ht...Mundabor has no comment and cannot correct me <br /><br />http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/09/mundabor-has-no-comment-and-cannot.htmlCatholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-30016206030236221752016-09-24T13:53:40.230+01:002016-09-24T13:53:40.230+01:00Yes,we can believe in some of the things said here...Yes,we can believe in some of the things said here at a speculative, theoretical level.However you have not addressed the key points mentioned in this report and neither has Mundabor on his blog. I posted it to him as soon as I wrote it.Catholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-22482207987704333892016-09-21T16:51:57.922+01:002016-09-21T16:51:57.922+01:00Lionel,
I firmly believe in the following:
&q...Lionel,<br /><br /> I firmly believe in the following:<br /><br /> " We also saw that the liberals taking passages out of context, claimed that Pope Pius IX taught that a person involved in invincible ignorance of the true faith could be saved. Here again is the whole relevant section from the encyclical Quanto conficiamur of 1863:<br /><br />“And here, beloved Sons and Venerable Brethren, it is necessary once more to mention and censure the serious error into which some Catholics have unfortunately fallen. For they are of the opinion that men who live in errors, estranged from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life. This is in direct opposition to Catholic teaching. We all know that those who are afflicted with invincible ignorance with regard to our holy religion, if they carefully keep the precepts of the natural law that have been written by God in the hearts of all men, if they are prepared to obey God, and if they lead a virtuous and dutiful life, can attain eternal life by the power of divine light and grace. For God, Who reads comprehensively in every detail the minds and souls, the thoughts and habits of all men, will not permit, in accordance with his infinite goodness and mercy, anyone who is not guilty of a voluntary fault to suffer eternal torments (suppliciis). However, also well-known is the Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church, and that those who obstinately oppose the authority and definitions of the Church, and who stubbornly remain separated from the unity of the Church and from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff (to whom the Saviour has entrusted the care of His vineyard), cannot attain salvation.” (Denz 1677)<br /> Pope Pius IX nowhere in this passage says that a person involved in invincible ignorance will be saved if he remains in that state, but by God’s grace, such a person will be led to the Catholic faith and to the Church, as St. Thomas teaches. Vatican Council II in the “Decree on the Church’s Missionary Activity” is very clear on this point. We read in Ad Gentes: “So although in ways known to Himself God can lead those, who through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel to that faith without which it is impossible to please Him” (Ad Gentes, 1,7)."<br /><br /><br />George Brenner<br />George Brennernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-14744704086433814432016-09-04T09:15:30.226+01:002016-09-04T09:15:30.226+01:00The SSPX has difficulty with several doctrinal pos...<br />The SSPX has difficulty with several doctrinal positions as they were expressed at Vatican II, and believes they represent a rupture with Tradition. However, the SSPX has no problem with Baptism of Desire. I refer you to this link: http://archives.sspx.org/miscellaneous/feeneyism/three_errors_of_feeneyites.htm.<br />Lionel:<br />Yes it is a baptism of desire which is VISIBLE.<br />It is Cushingite baptism of desire.<br />It is irrational. It contadicts a baptism of desire which is interpreted as being INVISIBLE.So instead of a Feeneyite baptism of desire they opt for a Cushingite baptism of desire.<br />This is a change in doctrine. It is an innovation.<br />_____________________________<br /><br /><br />They are quite clear in their own publication that they are solidly in line with the Modernist interpretation of No Salvation Outside the Church.<br />Lionel:<br />Yes it is the modernist interpretation of No Salvation Outside the Church. It is EENS( Cushingite).It differs of course from the original EENS of the Church Councils which did not mention any exceptions.<br />_______________________________<br /><br /><br /> I am in strong agreement with the Traditional "Feeneyite" interpretion myself, and have long expressed my belief that all of the problems in the Church began with this singular heresy.<br /><br />Lionel: I agree with you that this is a heresy. However it can be avoided in the future.It is not something fixed in Vatican Council II. The issue is the inference.Vatican Council II can be interpreted with the inference from Cushingism or Feeneyism.<br />Catholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-82874075294804232812016-09-04T03:07:51.006+01:002016-09-04T03:07:51.006+01:00The SSPX has difficulty with several doctrinal pos...The SSPX has difficulty with several doctrinal positions as they were expressed at Vatican II, and believes they represent a rupture with Tradition. However, the SSPX has no problem with Baptism of Desire. I refer you to this link: http://archives.sspx.org/miscellaneous/feeneyism/three_errors_of_feeneyites.htm.<br />They are quite clear in their own publication that they are solidly in line with the Modernist interpretation of No Salvation Outside the Church. I am in strong agreement with the Traditional "Feeneyite" interpretion myself, and have long expressed my belief that all of the problems in the Church began with this singular heresy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-58748416136689337062016-09-03T19:10:28.068+01:002016-09-03T19:10:28.068+01:00Ignorance about ignorance
Introiboadaltaredei2.blo... Ignorance about ignorance<br />Introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com<br /><br />Lionel:<br />Invincible ignorance has nothing to do with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.<br />As I mentioned 'Some things can be seen and some cannot'. We cannot see any one in 2016 saved with invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water.<br />So the sedevacantist at Introibo Ad Altare Dei is speculating.It is all hypothetical and there is no concrete case.He can play God and theorize.<br /><br />It is now over a year.He will not answer if LG 16 can be visible or invisible.Even the sedevacantists Bishop Sanborn and Fr. Cekada will not answer.<br /><br />Instead they affirm some concept of ' Feeneyism' and keep condemning it.<br />They assume that the baptism of desire can be seen. It is visible. So they criticize Fr. Leonard Feeney for not saying that the baptism of desire, without the baptism of water, is visible for him too. So it should be an exception to the dogma EENS.This was the ridiculous position of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which Introibo and the other sedevacantists accept.For the Letter the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance were exceptions to all needing the baptism of water for salvation.<br />On the right bar tags of this blog check IAAD for my communication with him.Catholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-60427618634602742042016-09-03T18:11:49.939+01:002016-09-03T18:11:49.939+01:00What do you think of this blog post: Ignorance abo...What do you think of this blog post: Ignorance about ignorance<br />Introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-64357743759004983652016-08-17T09:42:26.991+01:002016-08-17T09:42:26.991+01:00So for you BOD may exist.
Lionel:
Yes and for me t...<br />So for you BOD may exist.<br />Lionel:<br />Yes and for me this theoretical case would be followed with the baptism of water.<br /><br />Then it's not BOD. BOD does not involve water, so you deny it.<br />Lionel:<br /> For me it does.Otherwise I would be denying the dogma EENS( Feeneyite).<br />So you accept BOD( Cushingite) and I accept BOD ( Feeneyite).You reject BOD (Feeneyite).<br />________________________ <br /><br />The Church says the saints are in Heaven and we accept it.<br /><br />Why? Who sees these saints in Heaven? Isn't that irrational? <br />Lionel: <br />The issue here is the dogma EENS( Feeneyite).Are there any exceptions to EENs( Feeneyite). Since you accept BOD (Cushingite) and reject EENS( Feeneyite)I assume you can physically see exceptions. You can see exceptions who are personal and real for you and they could be in Heaven and/or on earth.This is the issue.<br /><br />Faith is not the issue. I believe in the Assumption of Our Lady and another person may not choose to believe in it.People in general physically ccanot see see people dead and who are in Heaven. Yet this is your position with BOD (Cushingite) and EENS( Cushingite).<br />_________________________<br /><br />You claim to see the dead.<br />Lionel: In faith I accept the Assumption of Our Lady. I do not say that she is in Heaven without the baptism of water.Physically I cannot see Our Lady in Heaven.<br />I faith I accept St. Emerentiana is in Heaven. I do not say that she is there without the baptism of water.No one could have physically seen her in Heaven with ot without the baptism of water.<br />Your faith would include believing that she went to Heaven without the baptism of water.<br />__________________________<br /><br /> Is a canonization infallible? If yes, we can know about souls in Heaven without seeing them.<br />Lionel. Yes in faith.<br />__________________________<br /><br /> If not, maybe they made a mistake in canonizing someone and we're praying to someone in Hell! <br /><br />We can believe in the Assumption, in faith.A non Catholic may choose not to believe in it.<br /><br />Why believe it on faith? It's irrational if you can't see Mary in Heaven.<br />Lionel:<br /> I do not need to physically see people in Heaven to believe they are there.I say we physically cannot see BOD cases in Heaven or earth since it is common for Catholics to assume that BOD is an exception to EENS( Feeneyite).I am responding to the errors made by many.<br />Otherwise for me, faith in itself is not an issue.<br />Believe in BOD but do not assume it is an exception to EENS(Feeneyite).<br />If the magisterium says we need to beleive in an explicit BOD with reference to EENS it is irrational, non traditional and heretical.<br />I can affirm BOD ( Feeneyite) and also EENS( Feeneyite) without denying the Faith.<br />_________________________<br /><br /><br /> It either happened or it did not happen. If it's infallible, we must believe it and tell the non-Catholic he is wrong.<br />Lionel: <br />Yes with reference to Faith in general.<br />__________________________<br /><br /> Then he will expose us as irrational because we can't see Mary with her body in Heaven, so the infallible pronouncement is irrational and must be rejected. But if you reject an infallible teaching you are a heretic, no longer a Catholic. <br />Lionel: Yes.<br />The dogma EENS is also an infallible teaching. It does not mention BOD (Cushingite) or EENs( Cushingite).<br />______________________________<br /><br />How can the Magisterium teach irrational things like the Assumption and BOD?<br />Lionel: <br />Pope Pius XII was correct on the Marian dogma. However he overlooked the error in the Fr. Leomard Feeney case. There cannot be a BOD(Cushingite) or EENS( Cushingite).<br />_____________________________<br /><br /><br /> What kind of teaching authority is that?<br />Lionel:<br /> The Masons have infiltrated the Church.Catholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-7892426107079622512016-08-17T01:22:03.074+01:002016-08-17T01:22:03.074+01:00So for you BOD may exist.
Lionel:
Yes and for me t...So for you BOD may exist.<br />Lionel:<br />Yes and for me this theoretical case would be followed with the baptism of water.<br /><br />Then it's not BOD. BOD does not involve water, so you deny it. <br /><br />The Church says the saints are in Heaven and we accept it.<br /><br />Why? Who sees these saints in Heaven? Isn't that irrational? You claim to see the dead. Is a canonization infallible? If yes, we can know about souls in Heaven without seeing them. If not, maybe they made a mistake in canonizing someone and we're praying to someone in Hell! <br /><br />We can believe in the Assumption, in faith.A non Catholic may choose not to believe in it.<br /><br />Why believe it on faith? It's irrational if you can't see Mary in Heaven. It either happened or it did not happen. If it's infallible, we must believe it and tell the non-Catholic he is wrong. Then he will expose us as irrational because we can't see Mary with her body in Heaven, so the infallible pronouncement is irrational and must be rejected. But if you reject an infallible teaching you are a heretic, no longer a Catholic. <br /><br />How can the Magisterium teach irrational things like the Assumption and BOD? What kind of teaching authority is that?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-28495491299162544662016-08-16T19:17:16.583+01:002016-08-16T19:17:16.583+01:00CONTINUED
Catechism of Pope X: It followed the Ba...CONTINUED<br /><br />Catechism of Pope X: It followed the Baltimore Catechism and placed the baptism of desire in the Baptism Section.<br /><br />Nicene Creed ( Cushingite): It says 'I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins' and means there are more than three known baptisms. They are water, blood, desire, seeds of the Word etc. <br /><br />Nicene Creed ( Feeneyite): It says 'I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins and means there is one known baptism the baptism of water. <br /><br />New Theology: It refers to the new theology in the Catholic Church based on hypothetical cases being objective in the present times.So it eliminates the dogma EENS.With the dogma EENS made obsolete the ecclesiology of the Church changes. There is a new ecclesiology which is a break with Tradition. <br /><br />Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus ( Cushingite):It refers to the dogma but with exceptions.All do not need to defacto convert into the Church in the present times, since there are exceptions.<br /><br />Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus ( Feeneyite):It refers to the dogma as it was interpreted over the centuries.There are no known exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Church, with faith and baptism, to avoid Hell. <br /><br />Catechism of the Catholic Church ( Cushingite):CCC 1257 contradicts the Principle of Non Contraduction. Also CCC 848 is based on the new theology and so is a rupture with the dogma EENS( Feeneyite). <br /><br />Catechism of the Catholic Church ( Feeneyite):CCC 1257 does not contradict the Principle of Non Contradiction since there are no known exceptions to all needing the baptism of water for salvation. There are no known exceptions, since God is not limited to the Sacraments.<br /><br />When CCC 846 states all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church,CCC 846 does not contradict the dogmatic teaching on all needin to formally enter the Church. CCC 846 does not contradict Ad Gentes 7 which states all need faith and baptism for salvation.<br /><br />________________________<br />Catholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-9362366885103850152016-08-16T19:16:39.632+01:002016-08-16T19:16:39.632+01:00TERMS EXPLAINED
Feeneyism: It is the old theology...TERMS EXPLAINED <br />Feeneyism: It is the old theology and philosophical reaoning which says there are no known exceptions past or present, to the dogma EENS.There are no explicit cases to contradict the traditional interpretation of EENS.<br /><br />Cushingism: It is the new theology and philosophical reasoning, which assumes there are known exceptions, past and present, to the dogma EENS, on the need for all to formally enter the Church.It assumes that the baptism of desire etc are not hypothetical but objectively known.In principle hypothetical cases are objective in the present times.<br /><br />Baptism of Desire: It refers to the hypothetical case of an unknown catechumen who desires the baptism of water but dies before he receives it and is saved. Since this is an invisible case in our reality it is not relevant to the dogma EENS.<br /><br />Invincible Ignorance: This refers to the hypothetical case of someone allegedly saved without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church, since he was in ignorance.<br /><br />Council of Florence.One of the three Councils which defined the dogma EENS.It did not mention any exceptions.<br /><br />Liberal theologians:They reinterpreted the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance, as objective cases, known in the present times.<br /><br />Vatican Council II(Cushingite): It refers to the interpretation of Vatican Council II with Cushingism.LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc refer not to hypothetical but known cases in the present times. So Vatican Council II emerges as a break with the dogma EENS.<br /><br />Vatican Council II (Feeneyite):It refers to the interpretation of Vatican Council II with Feeneyism.LG 16, LG 8, UR 3, NA 2 etc refer to hypothetical cases, which are unknown personally in the present times.So Vatican Council II is not a break with EENS, the Syllabus of Errors, ecumenism of return, the Nicene Creed ( Feeneyite-one baptism),the teaching on the Social Reign of Christ the King over all political legislation and the non separation of Church and State( since all need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell.<br /><br />Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston: It assumed hypothetical cases were defacto known in the present times. So it presented the baptism of desire etc as an explicit exception, to the traditional interpretation of the dogma EENS.It censured Fr.Leonard Feeney and the St.Benedict Center.Since they did not assume that the baptism of desire referred to a visible instead of invisible case.The Letter made the baptism of desire etc relevant to EENs.From the second part of this Letter has emerged the New Theology.<br /><br />Baltimore Catechism: It assumed that the desire for the baptism of an unknown catechumen, who dies before receiving it and was saved, was a baptism like the baptism of water. So it was placed in the Baptism Section of the catechism. In other words it was wrongly assumed that the baptism of desire is visible and repeatable like the baptism of water or that we can administer it like the baptism of water.<br />CONTINUEDCatholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-59783764967839630022016-08-16T19:13:56.293+01:002016-08-16T19:13:56.293+01:00CONTINUED
If we must accept it on Faith, then the...CONTINUED<br /><br />If we must accept it on Faith, then the Church can know about people in Heaven (with or without a body, etc) without being able to see them. Which is it?<br />Lionel:<br /> The Church says the saints are in Heaven and we accept it.<br />However for the Church to say that someone is in Heaven without the baptism of water would mean contradicting the dogma EENS.In faith we also affirm the dogma EENS.It was a dogma like the Assumption.<br />Then there is the practical issue.How could 'the Churc'h say, for example, that St. Emerentiana is in Heaven with or without the baptism of water? <br />In faith,the Church is saying that she is in Heaven without the baptism of water?<br />The Church is saying there are known exceptions to the dogma EENS ? This is heresy.<br />_____________________________<br /><br />Even if it is heresy for the contemporary magisterium the bottom line is that there are no such exceptions to EENS in 2016.Practically there are no exceptions to EENS.<br />So we cannot create a theology based on these non existing exceptions.<br />We cannot assume that accepting the baptism of desire in faith is creating a practical exception to EENS.<br />The saints and popes with good will or faith mentioned the baptism of desire( or the case of the catechumen), we cannot believe that any of them were referring to a practical exception to EENS.Yet this was the very error made by the liberal theologians in the USA.<br />_________________________<br />Catholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4007409004435288027.post-41709984298872477092016-08-16T19:13:20.397+01:002016-08-16T19:13:20.397+01:00August 16, 2016 at 2:00 PM Anonymous said......August 16, 2016 at 2:00 PM Anonymous said... <br />So for you BOD may exist.<br />Lionel:<br />Yes and for me this theoretical case would be followed with the baptism of water.<br />__________________________<br /><br /> Just because it is invisible doesn't make it less real, and three Councils could be wrong.<br />Lionel:<br /> Are you saying invisible cases are practical exceptions to all practically needing the baptism of water in the Catholic Church to be saved?<br />___________________________<br /><br /> God could be saving people with BOD invisibly right now.<br />Lionel:<br />O.K.You can believe this but do not assume it is an exception or relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Since if you say it is an exception( as did the Letter 1949) then you infer that it is physically known to be an exception.<br />_______________________________<br /><br /> Just because we can't see something doesn't make it "not part of our reality" We can't see planets 100 million light years away, but they are real.<br />Lionel:O.K.We believe in many things which we cannot see.I agree.<br />But can you see the baptism of desire case? Is there any such real case for you?<br />________________________________<br /><br />Who saw the Assumption? If it must be believed in Faith, then the Church can be correct about people in Heaven without seeing them. Is this not true or must we see them?<br />Lionel:<br />You may believe in the Assumption and also the baptism of desire with or without the baptism of water.Belief in either of the two is not an issue.<br />Since you would also be saying that they are not physically seen.This is important. Since we agree that they are not physically seen they are not relevant to the dogma EENS.<br />We both believe in the Assumption of Our Lady and we know it is not physically visible.<br />Pope Pius XII also believed in the Assumption of Our Lady. He also believed in the possibility of the catechumen being saved who desired the baptism of water but died before he recived it.However he did not correct the error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. He let it pass through.The Letter infers that the baptism of desire refers to a physically known case.It suggests that the Baptism of Desire is an exception to the Feeneyite interpretation of EENS.<br />This is contrary to the faith of the Church on salvation.<br />__________________________<br /><br /> If we must see them, the Assumption must be rejected as irrational.<br />Lionel:<br />We can believe in the Assumption, in faith.A non Catholic may choose not to believe in it.<br />However the non Catholic and Catholic would agree that we physically cannot see people in Heaven. We physically cannot see a person's soul.We physically cannot see the baptism of desire case.<br />So if we cannot physically see the baptism of desire case in 2016 where is the physical case to contradict EENS?<br />CONTINUED<br /><br /> Catholic Missionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025127342963192930noreply@blogger.com