Wednesday, October 22, 2014

Archbishop Lefebvre on Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus according to Mundabor- he made a mistake


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With every year it becomes clearer what a great man he was: Marcel Lefebvre.
I am more and more persuaded that if one wants to read contemporary sources of undoubted Catholic orthodoxy, the SSPX is the place where to look.
For this reason, whenever you think or suspect that something is not orthodox enough, or might be “nuChurch” under the appearance of orthodoxy, it is never wasted time to look what the SSPX says on the matter. These are people willing to be excommunicated to remain faithful to Truth, and there is no way they are going to compromise.
Let us take, for example, the “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” question – so often misused by misinformed – or disingenuous – Protestants to shoot at the Church and criticise her alleged lack of common sense – and let us see what Archbishop Lefebvre had to say on the matter.
From the “Open Letter to Confused Catholics”, available online in English from the SSPX Asia, we read the following:
First, the late Archbishop sets the main points of the question:
The Church is the one ark of salvation, and we must not be afraid to affirm it. You have often heard it said, “Outside the Church there is no salvation”–a dictum which offends contemporary minds. It is easy to believe that this doctrine is no longer in effect, that it has been dropped. It seems excessively severe.
Yet nothing, in fact, has changed; nothing can be changed in this area. Our Lord did not found a number of churches: He founded only One. There is only one Cross by which we can be saved, and that Cross has been given to the Catholic Church. It has not been given to others. To His Church, His mystical bride, Christ has given all graces. No grace in the world, no grace in the history of humanity is distributed except through her.
Then, he proceeds to explain how proper Catholic doctrine is rightly interpreted:
Does that mean that no Protestant, no Muslim, no Buddhist or animist will be saved? No, it would be a second error to think that. Those who cry for intolerance in interpreting St. Cyprian’s formula, “Outside the Church there is no salvation,” also reject the Creed, “I confess one baptism for the remission of sins,” and are insufficiently instructed as to what baptism is. There are three ways of receiving it: the baptism of water; the baptism of blood (that of the martyrs who confessed the faith while still catechumens) and baptism of desire.(Lionel:Wrong there is only one way of receiving it. De facto there is only the baptism of water. We cannot administer the baptism of desire to any one. We do not know any one who will be saved this year with the baptism of blood and so will not need the baptism of water. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre assumes that the baptism of desire and baptism of blood are explicit for us and so are exceptions to the traditional intepretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Otherwise why would he mention it? It is relevant only if it is explicit.He has accepted the wrong inference of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.)
Baptism of desire can be explicit. Many times in Africa I heard one of our catechumens say to me, “Father, baptize me straightaway because if I die before you come again, I shall go to hell.” I told him “No, if you have no mortal sin on your conscience and if you desire baptism, then you already have the grace in you.”
The doctrine of the Church also recognizes implicit baptism of desire.(Lionel: The baptism of desire refers to a catechumen who sought the baptism of water and was denied before he received it. For us this case is hypothetical. It is always invisible for us and known only to God. We cannot know any such case in 2014 and so it cannot be an exception to all needing the baptism of water for salvation.)  This consists in doing the will of God. God knows all men and He knows that amongst Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists and in the whole of humanity there are men of good will. They receive the grace of baptism without knowing it, but in an effective way. In this way they become part of the Church.(Lionel: And we do not know who they are in 2014.)
The error consists in thinking that they are saved by their religion. They are saved in their religion but not by it. (Lionel: If they are saved in their religion by Jesus and the Church how is this relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus? Since this would be a theoretical case for us. Hypothetical cases cannot be exceptions in 2014 to the literal and traditional interpretation of the dogma according to the Church Councils, popes, saints and Fr.Leonard Feeney of Boston) There is no Buddhist church in heaven, no Protestant church. This is perhaps hard to accept, but it is the truth. I did not found the Church, but rather Our Lord the Son of God. As priests we must state theTruth.(Lionel: He is correct here.There are only Catholics in Heaven)
Finally, in case you should think there is a rather easy way to salvation outside the Church, he takes all illusions away from you:
But at the cost of what difficulties do people in those countries where Christianity has not penetrated come to receive baptism by desire! Error is an obstacle to the Holy Ghost. This explains why the Church has always sent missionaries into all countries of the world, why thousands of them have suffered martyrdom. If salvation can be found in any religion, why cross the seas, why subject oneself to unhealthy climates, to a harsh life, to sickness and an early death? From the martyrdom of St. Stephen onwards (the first to give his life for Christ, and for this reason his feast is the day after Christmas), the Apostles set out to spread the Good News throughout the Mediterranean countries.
Would they have done this if one could be saved by worshipping Cybele or by the mysteries of Eleusis? Why did Our Lord say to them, “Go and preach the Gospel to all nations?”
Finally, a concrete example of how the post V II Church could be terribly wrong, and suffer the Truth to be substituted with heresy or worse by the work of the bishops themselves:
It is amazing that nowadays certain people want to let everyone find his own way to God according to the beliefs prevailing in his own “cultural milieu.” A bishop once told a priest who wanted to convert the little Muslims, “No, teach them to be good Muslims; that will be much better than making Catholics of them.”
Now please observe this:
1) This is straightforward, well explained, full of common sense and easy-to-grasp wisdom. Personally, I found that whenever you look for authentic Catholic answers, this is what you find.
2) This comes from a man of such unflinching orthodoxy( Lionel: It is not orthodoxy to infer that the dead-saved are visible exceptions to Tradition and then to use this same irrational inference in the interpretation of Vatican Council II to contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Tradition. ) as to be able to suffer excommunication just a few years before death, for the sake of Truth.(Lionel: It is true Vatican Council II was being interpreted with an irrational premise which came from the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. So he was correct about Vatican Council. However he did not know that the Council could have also been interpreted without the premise . The magisterium was of no help to him.They were not aware of the false premise being used in the interpretation.) You can think for yourself how probable it is this is not a fair and accurate representation of infallible Magisterium.
I have very often found that the critics of the SSPX love to criticise them based on preconceptions they have heard of – probably by some tambourine priest – and uncritically accepted. These people are seriously good, infinitely better Catholics than those priests and bishops calling them “schismatics”, or worse.
Irrespective of the final outcome of the SSPX-Vatican talks,(Lionel: The final outcome of the talks, the second round, depends upon understanding this error made by Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX bishops and priests.) I would encourage everyone to inform themselves about the SSPX position (Lionel: It is irrational, non traditonal and heretical) on whatever matter, rather than indulging in criticism by hearsay.
You will discover they take their name very, very seriously.
Mundabor

-Lionel Andrades
http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/archbishop-lefebvre-on-extra-ecclesiam-nulla-salus/

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