Tuesday, March 29, 2016

Liberals and traditionalists negate the dogma theologically with their known exceptions in 2016.It is also magisterial

Whatever you make think of this theology, it is certainly not new.
Lionel:
It was not there before the Council of Trent.To assume there is known salvation outside the Church is an irrationality and an innovation. It is the basis of this new theology.
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Writing nearly a century before the Second Vatican Council, Bl John Henry Newman had this to say: “One of the most remarkable instances of what I am insisting on is found in a dogma, which no Catholic can ever think of disputing, viz., that "Out of the Church, and out of the faith, is no salvation." Not to go to Scripture, it is the doctrine of St. Ignatius, St. Irenæus, St. Cyprian in the first three centuries, as of St. Augustine and his contemporaries in the fourth and fifth. It can never be other than an elementary truth of Christianity; and the present Pope has proclaimed it as all Popes, doctors, and bishops before him.
Lionel:
Even the SSPX proclaims it and at the same time says the baptism of desire etc is an exception to EENS.In other words theologically there is known salvation outside the Church.They can see or know cases of the baptism of desire and blood without the baptism of water.
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But that truth has two aspects, according as the force of the negative falls upon the "Church" or upon the "salvation." The main sense is, that there is no other communion or so called Church, but the Catholic, in which are stored the promises, the sacraments, and other means of salvation;
Lionel:
 Yes and theologically it is also said, not everyone needs to enter the Church for salvation EXCEPT FOR...
Or as Vatican Council II suggests, all need to enter the Church with faith and baptism (AG 7, LG 14) but....
Or, as Michael Voris says on the Vortex, every one needs to enter the Church but not every one needs to be a card carrying member !.
Liberals and traditionalists negate the dogma theologically with their allegedly known exceptions in 2016.It is also magisterial.The contemporary magisterium contradicts the Council of Trent and pre-Council of Trent magisterium.
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the other and derived sense is, that no one can be saved who is not in that one and only Church. 
Lionel: 
Yes however since there is known salvation outside the Church they also assume a non Catholic can be saved in his religion through Jesus and the Church. As if this case was known, they infer that this person does not need to formally enter the Church for salvation.
Who is this person? What is his name?
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But it does not follow, because there is no Church but one, which has the Evangelical gifts and privileges to bestow, that therefore no one can be saved without the intervention of that one Church.”
Lionel:
If there is some one saved without the intervention of this one Church it would not be known to us. So why mention it with respect to the dogma EENS?
-Lionel Andrades

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2016/leon-bloys-role-in-the-catholicism-of-jacques-and-raissa-maritain

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