When Catholics use the blue passages, the Great Commission has no exceptions, EENS has no exceptions,Vatican Council II(AG 7) has no exceptions and the Catechism of the Catholic Church( 846-Outside the Church No Salvation and 1257 The Necessity of Baptism) has no exceptions. - Lionel Andrades
https://theconversation.com/what-is-the-great-commission-and-why-is-it-so-controversial-111138
"Outside the Church there is no salvation" 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
- Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.-Ad Gentes 7
- For the National Catechectical Center and Pope Francis
- The passages in red are practical exceptions to the passage in blue
- For me:
- The passage in red refers to a hypothetical case only and so it is not a practical exception to the orthodox passage in blue . It does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus , the Athanasius Creed or the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX.
- _________________
- Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848
Fake premise
Fake premise
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JULY 25, 2016
So Boniface and the traditionalists affirm one thing ( Great Commission and need to enter the Church) but act in a manner contrary ( there are theological exceptions to the Great Commission)
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.it/
The traditionalists are proud to say that they are not Feeneyites. Like wise with the liberals.
Instead Boniface and the tradtionalists have the same liberal position on the dogma EENS(Cushingite) which is politically correct with the Left and is a rupture with pre-Council of Trent understanding of EENS.
SATURDAY, APRIL 10, 2021
Difference in the concept of The Great Commission between Rorate Caeili and myself
Easter Friday: The Great Commission
Teaching, Faith, Commandment: Truth is at the center of the Mission of the Church to all the Peoples of the world. May it begin once again once this Babylonian Exile started with Vatican II is at last put to an end. -Rorate Caeili, webblog
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/04/easter-friday-great-commission.html#more
Truth ? Here is the difference between New Catholic at the webblogRorate Caeili and myself.
Lionel:
There are no physically visible non Catholics in 2021 who are saved outside the Church. We cannot see or meet them in the flesh. If they existed they would only be known to God. I am speaking in the sense of physics, moving bodies, stationary bodies, momentum, Newton's laws of gravitation etc.
There are physically visible non Catholics in 2021 who are saved outside the Church. We can see or meet them in the flesh. They are known not only to God but also human beings. He is referring to physics, moving bodies, stationary bodies, momentum, Newton's laws of gravitation etc.so for New Catholic, and the Lefebvrists, the baptism of desire and inincible ignorance are practical exceptions to 16th century extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
How do you interpret the Apostles Creed at Holy Mass ?
There are two options, one rational and the other irrational, one traditional and the other non traditional, one heretical and the other non heretical, one schismatic and the other not a rupture with the past Magisterium of the Catholic Church. Most Catholics choose the irrational version which is not prohibited by the popes, cardinals and bishops.
" I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints" - Apostles Creed
New Catholic, Rorate Caeili
1. Do you say in church, at Holy Mass when the Creed is prayed, " I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints" and mean that the Holy Spirit guides the Church today to teach that outside the Catholic Church there is salvation, known salvation, there are visible non Catholics saved without faith and the baptism of water and so there is no communion with the saints on extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed etc ?
Or,
Lionel:
2. Do you say in church at Mass , "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints" and then mean that the Holy Spirit guides the Church today to teach that outside the Church there is no known salvation, there are no physically visible non Catholics in 2021 saved without Catholic faith and the baptism of water in the Catholic Church and so there is communion with the saints - Francis of Assisi, Ignatius of Loyola, Francis Xavier, Catherine of Siena, Maximillian Kolbe etc - on extra ecclesiam nulla salus( with no exceptions, like in the 16th century) the Athanasius Creed which says all need to be Catholic for salvation, the Catechism of Pope Pius X ( 24Q, 27Q), the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX ( ecumenism of return), Quas Primas o Pope Pius XI on the Proclamation of the Social Reign of Christ the King in all political legislation etc ?
THERE ARE TWO INTERPRETATIONS OF THE NICENE CREED. WHICH ONE IS YOURS ?
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins - Nicene Creed
Lionel :
1. There is one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, it is the baptism of water. It is physically visible and repeatable.
Or.
New Catholic, Rorate Caeili
2.There are more than three baptisms for the forgiveness of sins, they are known baptisms, personally visible. They are the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance. They exclude the baptism of water in the Catholic Church and so are practical exceptions to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) as explained in the Letter of the Holy Office(CDF) 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston. It was referenced also in Vatican Council II(Lumen Gentium 16).
There are can be two interpretations of the Great Commission.
Lionel:
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 2019
Bishop Schneider presented a pluralistic ecumenism without an exclusive ecclesiology in the Catholic Church : no denial from him
FEBRUARY 17, 2019
Bishop Athansius Schneider did not say the Catholic Faith is the only religion of God and instead referred to the Christian religions : no correction or denial from him or LifeSitesNews
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/bishop-athansius-schneider-did-not-say.html
FEBRUARY 18, 2019
Fake theology
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/fake-theology.html
TUESDAY, AUGUST 7, 2018
Traditionalists are using a false premise to create heresy (Graphics)
AUGUST 6, 2018
Whispers of Restoration a group of anonymous traditionalists,heretics and schismatics, who interpret Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, with a false premise, and so create a rupture with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS), the Syllabus of Errors and past Catechisms
AUGUST 6, 2018
Doesn't Louie see his heresy somewhere in all this?http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2018/08/doesnt-louie-see-his-heresy-somewhere.html
-Lionel Andrades
AUGUST 6, 2018
Questions for the traditionalists
DECEMBER 18, 2018
Gospel of John says all need to believe in Jesus for salvation and we do not know of any practical exceptions ; we cannot know of any exceptions to the Great Commission
In the Bible the Gospel of John says that every one needs to believe in Jesus to go to Heaven and there is no other way. For us Catholics the norm is believing in Jesus in the Catholic Church.
11] Amen, amen I say to thee, that we speak what we know, and we testify what we have seen, and you receive not our testimony. [12] If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not; how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things? [13] And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven. [14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: [15] That whosoever believeth in him, may not perish; but may have life everlasting.John 3:11-15 Douy Rheims Bible
So when we meet non Catholics we know that they are Hell-bound.Since they will die without the ordinary means of salvation,which is faith and baptism.2
[26] For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given the Son also to have life in himself: [27] And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is the Son of man. [28] Wonder not at this; for the hour cometh, wherein all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God. [29] And they that have done good things, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. [30] I cannot of myself do any thing. As I hear, so I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.John 5:26-30
There are no known exceptions to the ordinary means of salvation. The baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and invincible ignorance(I.I) are not practical exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).They are not practical exceptions to the ordinary means of salvation.We cannot meet or see any one saved outside the Church.God made it this way.3
We cannot know of any one who will be saved who does not believe in Jesus and we know the ordinary means of salvation for Catholics is faith in Jesus in the Catholic Church.
So it is necessary that everyone become Catholic to avoid Hell. Jesus founded only one Church, the Catholic Church.
[56] For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. [57] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. [58] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.[59] This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. [60] These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum.John 6:56-60
The Eucharist at Mass is necessarty for salvation. All need the Saraments of the Catholic Church to avoid Hell.
And he said to them: You are from beneath, I am from above. You are of this world, I am not of this world.[24] Therefore I said to you, that you shall die in your sins. For if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sin. [25] They said therefore to him: Who art thou? Jesus said to them: The beginning, who also speak unto you.John 8:23.25
[6] Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me-John 14:6
Non Catholic Christians who believe in Jesus and then die suddenly can be saved and it would be known only to God.As St. Paul told the Phillipian jailer (Acts 16.25:40)that all he had to do was to believe in Jesus and he would be saved. This is true. However the jailer and his household would have to be later baptised with water. They would then be taught the Faith which they would have to live. That faith which they would be taught for salvation, is the Catholic Faith.
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