JUNE 12, 2021
There are so many reports/articles on the Vatican websites which interpret Vatican Council II as being non dogmatic and as a rupture with Tradition.The Council is dogmatic
There are so many reports/articles on the Vatican websites which interpret Vatican Council II as being non dogmatic and as a rupture with Tradition.The websites for the Congregation for the Clergy and the Council for Christian Unity, I have shown on this blog, use a fake premise, to interpret the Council as a rupture with extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
This has been presented as 'a new revelation' in the Catholic Church. The error was used to justify Amoris Laetitia and so to give the Eucharist to the divorced and remarried.
But the Council is dogmatic. It is in line with Church documents which affirm exclusive salvation with only Catholic faith and the baptism of water.Faith and baptism in the Catholic Church(AG 7) is the Conciliar Church's teaching on exclusive salvation with the past exclusivist ecclesiology.-Lionel Andrades
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JUNE 11, 2021
Vatican Council II is dogmatic
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE LIONEL ANDRADES INTERPRETATION OF VATICAN COUNCIL II
1.What's so special about the Lionel Andrades interpretation of Vatican Council II ?
It is the listing of the rational and irrational premise, inference and conclusion. It identifies two different premises with two different conclusions. So the rational premise produces a traditional conclusion and the Vatican Council II is in harmony with Tradition. It has a hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition even though Rahner, Congar, Rarzinger and Cushing were present at the Council in 1965.
Collegiality, ecumenism and religious liberty are no more an issue for the conservatives , when Vatican Council II is traditional. Lumen Gentium 8, Lumen Gentium 14, Lumen Gentium 16 ecc. oin Vatican Council II refer to only physically invisible cases in 1965-2021.
12.Vatican Council II is dogmatic ?
Yes. Pope Paul VI and the liberals call Vatican Council II "pastoral" and not dogmatic. Since they do not want to affirm the rigorous interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). Without their false premise the Council is dogmatic. It supports the rigorous interpretation of EENS.This was EENS according to the missionaries and the Magisterium of the sixteenth century. LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NS 2, GS 22 etc., in the Second Vatican Council, if interpreted rationally, cannot be practical exceptions to EENS. Invisible cases in our reality cannot be objective exceptions to EENS. For example, to get on the bus you have to be present at the bus station. If you are not physically at the bus stop it is not possible to get on the bus.
Another example is, if there is an apple in a box of oranges, the apple is an exception since it is there in the box. If it was not there in that box it would not be an exception. Similarly LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3 etc.,refer only to hypothetical cases. We cannot meet or see anyone saved outside the Church, without faith and the baptism of water. So the Council is not referring to real people, known people in the present times.
Unknown and invisible cases of the baptism of desire (LG 14) and of being saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) cannot be objective exceptions for EENS, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX.There is no conflict.
So when Vatican Council II is interpreted rationally it is dogmatic. -Lionel Andrades
SATURDAY, JUNE 12, 2021
Vatican Council II is dogmatic but the FSSP and the lay community at Dijon, France allow Bishop Roland Minnrath to get away with it
The Second Vatican Council is dogmatic, but the FSSP priests and their community in Dijon, France, allow Bishop Roland Minnerath to get away with it. They must tell him and the diocesan priests that there is no new revelation in the Catholic Church with the Second Vatican Council, since the Council is dogmatic. Ad Gentes 7 (all need faith and baptism for salvation) supports the strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) while the hypothetical cases mentioned in LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NS 2, GS 22 etc. cannot be objective exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 in 1965-2021. So there is nothing in the text of the Council that contradicts 16th century EENS or the Athanasius Creed or the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX on there being exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
The Second Vatican Council is dogmatic and the two popes today must accept it. When the Council is interpreted rationally there is no new revelation. The Council irrationally interpreted cannot be Magistral or a new revelation in the Church. The Second Vatican Council affirms the dogma EENS with Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 .While the Council does not contradict EENS or Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14, with LG 8, LG 16, UR 3, GS 22 etc. Since if someone was saved outside the Church, he would be known only to God. They are not part of our reality. They are invisible in 1965-2021.
When Pope Francis says that the Second Vatican Council is the Magisterium of the Church he must refer to a pro-EENS dogmatic Council with the hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition.
The archbishop chided lay members of the Latin Mass community for their responses to the diocese, which he labeled as "unfortunately revealing of a regrettable spirit of the rejection of the 'conciliar [post-Vatican II] Church.'" 1
The bishop interprets Vatican Council II with the false premise and so the Council does not affirm the dogma EENS and Tradition.But the FSSP and the Latin Mass laity do the same. So the FSSP and the laity correctly reject Vatican Council II interpreted with the false premise and the bishops accepts the Council, as a break with Tradition.
Now the Latin Mass laity has to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise and there will be no break with Tradition. Then they must ask the bishop and the rest of the diocese, to do the same. They will then be affirming Vatican Council II and Tradition and this will become the Conciliar Church. -Lionel Andrades
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LATIN MASS LAITY EXPOSE FRENCH BISHOP’S FIBS
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/latin-mass-laity-expose-french-bishops-fibs
JUNE 10, 2021
Catholics must ask Bishop Roland Minnerath, Archbishop of the Metropolitan diocese of Dijon and a member of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise and take the whole diocese back to extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) of the missionaries in the 16th century.The whole diocese will go trad
The present FSSP congregation of lay Catholics must ask Bishop Roland Minnerath, Archbishop of the Metropolitan diocese of Dijon, a member of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to interpret Vatican Council II without the false premise and take the whole diocese back to extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) of the missionaries in the 16th century.The whole diocese will go trad.
Then the new bishop cannot strike at the Latin Mass. Since the majority of confirmed, rigid, trads will be at Mass in French.-Lionel Andrades
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/french-bishop-expels-latin-mass-fraternity
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/06/lay-catholics-must-ask-bishop-roland.html
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FAKE PREMISE OF POPE BENEDICT
Lumen Gentium 8,Lumen Gentium 14, Lumen Gentium 16 etc in Vatican Council II refer to physically visible cases in 1965-2021.
FAKE INFERENCE BENEDICT
They are objective examples of salvation outside the Church.
FAKE CONCLUSION OF POPE BENEDICT
Vatican Council II contradicts the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).The Athanasius Creed(outside the Church there is no salvation) and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX ( ecumenism of return) were made obsolete.
Here is my interpretation of Vatican Council II in blue.
RATIONAL PREMISE OF LIONEL
LG 8, LG 14, LG 16 etc in Vatican Council II refer to physically invisible cases in 1965-2021.They are only hypothetical and theoretical. They exist only in our mind and are not solid bodies at Newton's level of time, space and matter.
RATIONAL INFERENCE OF LIONEL
They are not objective examples of salvation outside the Church for us human beings.
RATIONAL CONCLUSION OF LIONEL
Vatican Council II does not contradict EENS as it was interpreted by the Jesuits in the Middle Ages.It does not contradict the strict interpretation of EENS of St. Thomas Aquinas( saved in invincible ignorance is invisible), St. Augustine and Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston.
The Letter of the Holy Office(Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) 1949 made an objective mistake it used the false premise, inference and conclusion.
TWO COLUMN APPROACHor defacto ( in fact ).
subjective or objective.
So one can choose from the left hand side or the right hand side column.
If the right hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and Tradition in general on other religions and Christian communities and churches. There are known exceptions in 2021 to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Cathlic Church. The dead-saved are visible.If the left hand side column is chosen then Vatican Council II does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus, nor Tradition on other religions and Christian communities and churches.
- Most people interpret Vatican Council II with the right hand side values.Bishop Roland Minnerath and the Diocesan priests in Dijon, France use the irrational right hand side column.So there is an artificial break with Tradition( EENS, Syllabus of Errors etc).The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance never ever were an exception to the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney, unless one is using the right hand side column.There were, and are, no known exceptions.
Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there
is no salvation outside the Church.
However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church...
which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth...
Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.
In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects,necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic
necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).
However, this desire need not always be explicit,as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.
MAGISTERIAL DOCUMENTS CAN BE INTERPRETED WITH 1)THE RED PASSAGES BEING AN EXCEPTION TO THE BLUE PASSAGES OR WITH 2)THE RED PASSAGES NOT BEING AN EXCEPTION TO THE BLUE PASSAGES.THE LATTER(2) IS RATIONAL.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it." Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him...- Ad Gentes 7. Vatican Council II
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. He is not saved, however, who, though part of the body of the Church, does not persevere in charity. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but, as it were, only in a "bodily" manner and not "in his heart."(12*) All the Church's children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.(13*)
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II
"Outside the Church there is no salvation" 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
- Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
- Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848
Would you interpret Vatican Council II with the right hand side or left hand side column?
LEFT HAND SIDE COLUMN - RIGHT HAND SIDE COLUMN
All salvation referred to in Vatican Council II i.e saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3),seeds of the Word (AG 11), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2) etc are either:
implicit or explicit for us.
hypothetical or known in reality.
invisible or visible in the flesh.
dejure(in principle)