Rorate Caeili still interprets Vatican Council II with the Irrational Premise to please the Left.Irrespective of what is said in this report 1 if the Council is interpreted with the Rational Premise it will be support Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors and the Athanasius Creed. The Council would be traditional.This would be the only ethical interpretation of the Council. The Rorate Caeili, Roberto dei Mattei, Don Pietro Leone interpretation of the Council is political. It supports the Left by creating alleged exceptions ( LG 8,14,16 etc) for the past ecclesiocentrism of the Church.Here we have supports of the Latin Mass not supporting a Tradition in harmony with Vatican Council, interpreted rationally.They want to interpret the Creeds and old Catechisms with the False Premise. -Lionel Andrades
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The Council and the Eclipse of God by Don Pietro Leone: CHAPTER 10 (Part 6a.) III. FEATURES OF THE TEXTS INFLUENTIAL FOR PROMOTING THE COUNCIL’s WORK: 1. Authority; 2.Appeal to Charismatic Inspiration; 3. Appeal to the Senses
JUNE 17, 2013
Modernism at Rorate Caeili
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.it/2013/06/mystici-corporis-at-70-i-true-church-of.html
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2022
When Pope Francis and Pope Benedict interpret Vatican Council II with LG 8 etc being only hypothetical and speculative cases in 2022 they become traditionalists
SUBJECTIVE INTERPRETATION WITH VATICAN COUNCIL II-OBSOLETE
This 1 is another subjective interpretation of Vatican Council II which is irrelevant since when the Council is interpreted with the Rational Premise it is ecclesiocentric and orthodox. There is a radical change.
I interpret the Council with the Rational Premise so LG 8,14,15 and 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc in Vatican Council II refer to hypothetical and invisible cases in 2022.This is the big difference between me and Rorate Caeili, Roberto dei Mattei and Peter Kwasniewski. For them LG 8 etc. contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed and the rest of Tradition.
So they imply that LG 8 etc. are objective cases in the present times. They are known non Catholics saved outside the Church without Catholic faith and the baptism of water. So the Syllabus of Errors has become obsolete with Vatican Council II, with visible cases of LG 8 etc.
INVISIBLE PEOPLE CANNOT BE OBJECTIVE EXCEPTIONS FOR FEENEYITE EENS
They would have to be visible cases for them to be practical exceptions for Feeneyite EENS. Invisible people, who are not there on earth, cannot be known examples of salvation outside the Church this year.
So the correspondents of the website Rorate Caeili, like the popes from Paul VI to Francis, interpret LG 8 etc. as being physically visible examples of salvation outside the Church while for me they are only hypothetical cases. This is common knowledge. So there
are numerous people who agree with me. I have quoted some of the prominent ones on my blog. They say that there are no cases of the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance etc. in our reality.
IRRELEVANT INTERPRETATION OF VATICAN COUNCIL II
So Rorate Caeili and Don Pietro Leone are producing this obsolete series on Vatican Council II. It is now irrelevant.Vatican Council II is traditional. This is the rational and ethical option.It is the only option for Pope Francis and Pope Benedict.
When they interpret Vatican Council II with LG 8 etc being only hypothetical and speculative cases in 2022 they become traditionalists. -Lionel Andrades
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60 years of Vatican II - 'THE COUNCIL AND THE ECLIPSE OF GOD' by Don Pietro Leone - CHAPTER 10 - part 4 - 'THE CAUSES OF COUNCIL TEACHING: D. Psychology
Conclusion to Section I
We have investigated the source of the false principle of antirealist subjectivism in Modern Philosophy; in Modern Theology; in that religion which we have termed Gnosis; and finally in its ontological foundation in the psychology of Fallen Nature.
Reflection on this false principle shows us that the philosophy, theology, the religion and the ethics that they inform - first Gnosis and then all the other false religions that it was to engender - are in fact all impostures.
* For a philosophy to be antirealist, for it to doubt or to deny Being, means that it is not a philosophy at all, but an anti-philosophy;
- * For a theology to be antirealist, for it to doubt or to deny God, means that it is not a theology at all, but an anti-theology;
- * For a religion to be antirealist, for it to repudiate God, means that it is not a religion at all, but an anti-religion; for it to advocate egoism as its ethics means that it is does not comprise a system of morality but a system of anti-morality.
A philosopher that can tell us nothing about reality, a theologian that can tell us nothing about God, is like a geographer that can tell us nothing about the world or a chemist that can tell us nothing about chemicals; the proponent of a religion that can tell us nothing about God, about how to relate to Him, and how to live, is like a doctor that can tell us nothing about illness or health.
But these systems of thought and action are not only impostures but also mortiferous, since a philosophy and a morality that are not about reality, a theology and a religion that are not about God can offer us no guidance about how to live, but only darkness or false light that will make us lose the way or lead us astray. The proponents of such systems are like undertakers disguised as doctors working at the service not of life but of death [6].
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2022/10/60-years-of-vatican-ii-council-and_18.html#mo
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OCTOBER 15, 2022
Rorate Caeili supports gnosis with their expedient interpretation of Vatican Council II irrationally
OCTOBER 14, 2022
This is modernism with alleged traditionalists rejecting Tradition to be politically correct with the Left. Mattei and Rorate Caeili are supporting the globalists in exchange for approval from the Left
OCTOBER 14, 2022
OCTOBER 14, 2022
Roberto dei Mattei and Rorate Caeli do not interpret Vatican Council II with the Rational Premise since then it would be a threat to their media
OCTOBER 9, 2022
After reading this article on Rorate Caeili know that the Council is today being interpreted as a continuity with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors. This is possible without using the Irrational Premise of Don Pietro Leone and Rorate Caeili.
TUESDAY, APRIL 9, 2013
Rorate censorship being maintained by the Left
Rorate had placed a few reports on the ITC's blatant error but subsequent reports were pulled down.The reports which were posted on the ITC were widely read but ran afoul of the anti-Semitism, racist and other leftists laws which are vague and can be used against just anything.So even the files containing these ITC reports on Rorate Caeili have been removed.In general one can access old posts on Rorate Caeili but there is a blank on the ITC reports which were posted and maintained for a few days on Rorate Caeili.
Here are the ITC reports some of which were available on Rorate Caeili and which are now no more accessible.(1).
INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION USES PREMISE THAT IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT : LIMBO
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commission_29.html
The International Theological Commission's position paper Christianity and the World Religions 1997 has an objective factual error and is approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger : invincible ignorance is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commissions.html
INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION ASSUMES ‘SEEDS OF THE WORD’ (VATICAN COUNCIL II ) IN OTHER RELIGIONS ARE KNOWN TO US AND THIS IS AN EXPLICIT EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commission.html
VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/vaticans-international-theological.html
VATICAN COUNCIL II REJECTS THE THEOLOGY OF RELIGIONS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/vatican-council-ii-rejects-theology-of.html
Former Secretary of the International Theological Commission holds that those saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance are known to us and so an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/02/secretary-of-international-theological.html#links
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 22, 2014
A CALL TO UNITY MUST BE BASED ON DOCTRINE
Ad Gentes 7 affirms the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities and churches.
So Vatican Council II affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The Council is pro-Fr.Leonard Feeney.
There is no salvation outside the Church, known to Rorate correspondents in 2014. Neither does Vatican Council II say that the dead on earth now saved in Heaven are visible to us.
Rorate Caeili is not willing like many Traditionalists to affirm this teaching or even to discuss it.-Lionel Andrades
January 20, 2014
More nonsense on Rorate Caeili
SATURDAY, APRIL 10, 2021
Difference in the concept of The Great Commission between Rorate Caeili and myself
Easter Friday: The Great Commission
Teaching, Faith, Commandment: Truth is at the center of the Mission of the Church to all the Peoples of the world. May it begin once again once this Babylonian Exile started with Vatican II is at last put to an end. -Rorate Caeili, webblog
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/04/easter-friday-great-commission.html#more
Truth ? Here is the difference between New Catholic at the webblogRorate Caeili and myself.
Lionel:
There are no physically visible non Catholics in 2021 who are saved outside the Church. We cannot see or meet them in the flesh. If they existed they would only be known to God. I am speaking in the sense of physics, moving bodies, stationary bodies, momentum, Newton's laws of gravitation etc.
There are physically visible non Catholics in 2021 who are saved outside the Church. We can see or meet them in the flesh. They are known not only to God but also human beings. He is referring to physics, moving bodies, stationary bodies, momentum, Newton's laws of gravitation etc.so for New Catholic, and the Lefebvrists, the baptism of desire and inincible ignorance are practical exceptions to 16th century extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
How do you interpret the Apostles Creed at Holy Mass ?
There are two options, one rational and the other irrational, one traditional and the other non traditional, one heretical and the other non heretical, one schismatic and the other not a rupture with the past Magisterium of the Catholic Church. Most Catholics choose the irrational version which is not prohibited by the popes, cardinals and bishops.
" I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints" - Apostles Creed
New Catholic, Rorate Caeili
1. Do you say in church, at Holy Mass when the Creed is prayed, " I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints" and mean that the Holy Spirit guides the Church today to teach that outside the Catholic Church there is salvation, known salvation, there are visible non Catholics saved without faith and the baptism of water and so there is no communion with the saints on extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed etc ?
Or,
Lionel:
2. Do you say in church at Mass , "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints" and then mean that the Holy Spirit guides the Church today to teach that outside the Church there is no known salvation, there are no physically visible non Catholics in 2021 saved without Catholic faith and the baptism of water in the Catholic Church and so there is communion with the saints - Francis of Assisi, Ignatius of Loyola, Francis Xavier, Catherine of Siena, Maximillian Kolbe etc - on extra ecclesiam nulla salus( with no exceptions, like in the 16th century) the Athanasius Creed which says all need to be Catholic for salvation, the Catechism of Pope Pius X ( 24Q, 27Q), the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX ( ecumenism of return), Quas Primas o Pope Pius XI on the Proclamation of the Social Reign of Christ the King in all political legislation etc ?
THERE ARE TWO INTERPRETATIONS OF THE NICENE CREED. WHICH ONE IS YOURS ?
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins - Nicene Creed
Lionel :
1. There is one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, it is the baptism of water. It is physically visible and repeatable.
Or.
New Catholic, Rorate Caeili
2.There are more than three baptisms for the forgiveness of sins, they are known baptisms, personally visible. They are the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance. They exclude the baptism of water in the Catholic Church and so are practical exceptions to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) as explained in the Letter of the Holy Office(CDF) 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston. It was referenced also in Vatican Council II(Lumen Gentium 16).
There are can be two interpretations of the Great Commission.
Lionel:
THURSDAY, JUNE 3, 2021
Rorate Caeili and Don Pietro Leone choose to interpret Vatican Council II irrationally and then they reject the non traditional conclusion,even after being informed.
Rorate Caeili and Don Pietro Leone choose to interpret Vatican Council II irrationally and then they reject the non traditional conclusion,even after being informed.They do not choose to interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, etc rationally and then affirm exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.It is the same with Roberto dei Mattei, Chris Ferrara, Taylor Marshall and Peter Kwasniewski. -Lionel Andrades
JUNE 1, 2021
Don Pietro Leone's reports on Vatican Council II posted by Rorate Caeili please the Left
Rorate Caeili/Don Pietro Leone are actually promoting the liberal version of Vatican Council II. They choose to interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc with the false premise instead of without it. Of course the conclusion has to be non traditional and they know it
Rorate Caeili/Don Pietro Leone are actually promoting the liberal version of Vatican Council II. They choose to interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc with the false premise instead of without it. Of course the conclusion has to be non traditional and they know it. -Lionel Andrades
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/05/rorate-caeilidon-pietro-leone-are.html
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MAY 28, 2021
Why should Catholics use the false premise and interpret Vatican Council II like Don Pietro Leone, Fr. John Zuhlsdorf,Cardinal Raymond Burke and the new Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship ?
THE COUNCIL AND THE ECLIPSE OF GOD - PART X - by Don Pietro Leone : THE CHURCH AND THE NON-CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/05/the-council-and-eclipse-of-god-part-x.html
A. Ecumenism in Theory
Here we consider the ecclesiological status that the Council accords to non-Catholic Christians.
i) ‘…many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside its [the Catholic Church’s] visible confines.’ (Lumen Gentium 8);
ii) ‘all that have been justified by faith in baptism are incorporated into Christ.’(Unitatis Redintegratio 3);
iii) ‘… very many… elements… which go to build up and give life to the church itself can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity; with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.’ (ibid);
iv) ‘… the separated churches and communities as such… have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery if salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation…’ (UR 3);
v) [The non-Catholics are]‘brothers and sisters’ … in… ‘imperfect communion with the Catholic Church’… ‘separated brothers and sisters’ (UR 3);
vi) Amongst the non-Catholic Christians there is ‘a true union in the Holy Spirit’… ‘and He has strengthened some of them even to the shedding of their blood’ (LG 15).