There no more is the extra ecclesiam nulla salus of the Council of Florence( 1441) since allegedly visible cases of the baptism of desire are objective examples of salvation outside the Church. This is also the reasoning of the Society of St. Pius X and the sedevacantists, bishops Pivarunas and Sanborn and also ofPeter and Michael Dimond.

 from Rorate Caeili

Defending the Traditional Mass with Just Arguments -- Theological and Legal - by Father Claude Barthe

 We will deal here only with arguments in defense of the traditional Mass. In particular, we would like to consider two that are often used to justify the free option in favor of the traditional missal:

(1)  The invocation of the bull Quo primum of 1570, insofar as it states that the missal it promulgates may be used “in perpetuity”. And 

(2) the fact that the Church has always recognized the legitimacy of a diversity of rites.

In principle, they are all relevant, but only if we avoid using them as if the circumstances that call for their habitual use were those of today:

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2024/09/defending-traditional-mass-with-just.html

Defending the Traditional Mass with Just Arguments -- Theological and Legal - by Father Claude Barthe

 

We will deal here only with arguments in defense of the traditional Mass. In particular, we would like to consider two that are often used to justify the free option in favor of the traditional missal:

(1)  The invocation of the bull Quo primum of 1570, insofar as it states that the missal it promulgates may be used “in perpetuity”. And 

(2) the fact that the Church has always recognized the legitimacy of a diversity of rites.

In principle, they are all relevant, but only if we avoid using them as if the circumstances that call for their habitual use were those of today:

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2024/09/defending-traditional-mass-with-just.html

 

Comment

  

(1)  The invocation of the bull Quo primum of 1570, insofar as it states that the missal it promulgates may be used “in perpetuity”. And 

Lionel: Cardinal Arthur Roche and many cardinals before him, have said that there is a new ecclesiology in the Church, with Vatican Council II ( they mean Vatican Council II irrational and not rational).Even traditionalists interpret the Ccuncil irrationally and so would agree with this false argument.

 

(2)  the fact that the Church has always recognized the legitimacy of a diversity of rites.

True but there is still Vatican Council II ( irrational) which projects objective and literal exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors. So the Feeneyite ecclesiology of the Roman Missal of the Middle Ages is now obsolete.

There no more is the extra ecclesiam nulla salus of the Council of Florence( 1441) since allegedly visible cases of the baptism of desire are objective examples of salvation outside the Church. This is also the reasoning of the Society of St. Pius X and the sedevacantists, bishops Pivarunas and Sanborn and also ofPeter and Michael Dimond.For me Vatican Council II ( rational) does not make the ecclesiology of the Roman Missal obsolete. Instead it is the new Missal, when interpreted irrationally ( with Cushingism) is obsolete.Claude Barthe will not understand what I am saying here since for him Vatican Council II can only be interpreted irrationally, by confusing LG 8,14,15,16, UR 3,NA 2, GS 2 etc, as being literal cases known in the present times. - Lionel Andrades