Tancred has not interpreted Vatican Council II rationally on his blog The Eponymous Flower. He has chosen irrational Cushingism ( invisible people are visible in 2024, LG 16 refers to a visible and personally known case) instead of rational Feeneyism.

 

Tancred has not interpreted Vatican Council II rationally on his blog The Eponymous Flower. He has chosen irrational Cushingism ( invisible people are visible in 2024, LG 16 refers to a visible and personally known case) instead of rational Feeneyism. So his conclusion would be non traditional. He would be going in circles like the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, Vatican. With Feeneyism (invisible cases are invisible always), Vatican Council II has the hermeneutic of continuity with the Athanasius Creed, the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX.

- Lionel Andrades

The legal basis

The procedure follows Canon 1364 of the Codex Iuris Canonici:

 § 1 The apostate, the heretic or the schismatic incurs excommunication as a punishment, without prejudice to the provision of can.  194 § 1, n. 2;  in addition, he may be subject to penalties in accordance with can.  1336 §§ 2–4 must be taken.

Lionel: Why must Archbishop Vigano interpret Vatican Council II, irrationally ? There is a rational choice. This would be the moral choice also for the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, Vatican.

___________________ 

 § 2. If persistent insubordination or the seriousness of the offense so require, further punishments may be added, not excluding dismissal from the clergy.

 Specifically, Archbishop Viganò is accused of schism.  The reasons for this are “public statements”.  He questions the legitimacy of Pope Francis, is no longer in unity with him and rejects the Second Vatican Council.  According to Canon 1717, a preliminary investigation is dispensed with:

Lionel: Pope Francis interprets Vatican Council II irrationally. This is heresy and schism. He also interprets the Creed irrationally. This is first class heresy. There is no denial from any one. They agree with me.

________________________

 § 1. If the Ordinary receives at least probable knowledge that a crime has been committed, he should carefully inquire about the facts of the crime, the detailed circumstances and the criminal liability himself or through another suitable person, unless this appears to be completely unnecessary  .

Lionel: There are hundrends of reports on the Internet. We now know that Vatican Council II can be interpreted rationally and in harmony with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Athanasius Creed. There has been no comment from Msgr. Kennedy at the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, Vatican.

______________________ 

In his first statement on the proceedings, on June 20, Msgr. Viganò, alluding to this unusual procedure, stated:

 “I assume that the conviction has already been determined, given that the proceedings will take place out of court.”

Above all, the shortened procedure, which can only be viewed to a limited extent as an ordinary procedure, is cited by Archbishop Viganò as a reason why Santa Marta does not intend a fair trial.

Lionel. Pope Francis and Cardinal Fernandez are in public heresy and schism on Vatican Council II. This can be objectively verified. The Vicar General and Auxiliary bishops in Rome and the Bishops Conference in Italy and the USA have not been able to defend them in public.

-Lionel Andrades

https://www.theeponymousflower.com/2024/06/the-trial-against-archbishop-carlo.html

We have new information on Vatican Council II. Times have changed.Some 15 years back I discovered that Lumen Gentium 16 (being saved in invincible ignorance etc) was always hypothetical. It meant Vatican Council II was not a rupture with Tradition.

 

We have new information on Vatican Council II. Times have changed. 

Archbishop Carlo Vigano’s Tradition is supported by Vatican Council II (rational).Pope Francis justifies his liberalism with Vatican Council II (irrational).Now he wants Vigano to accept Vatican Council II (irrational) and the accompanying liberalism or be declared schismatic.

Instead it is those who do not accept Vatican Council II (rational) and Tradition who are heretical. They, the popes included, are in schism with the Magisterium over the centuries. So Catholics have a moral obligation to reject the political, irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II, by Pope Francis. It is dishonest. It is not Magisterial since it is a lie. Pope Francis can only be Magisterial when he interprets Vatican Council II rationally and honestly.

Some 15 years back I discovered that Lumen Gentium 16 (being saved in invincible ignorance etc) was always hypothetical. So how could LG 16 etc be an exception for Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?

This was a discovery. It was a Yahoo experience. It meant Vatican Council II was not a rupture with Tradition. It means the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office (CDF/DDF) to the Archbishop of Boston relative to Fr. Leonard Feeney  made an objective mistake. It confused invisible cases of the baptism of desire as being visible exceptions for EENS. This mistake is followed today by Pope Francis, Cardinal Fernandez and Archbishop Vigano. This mistake went unnoticed by Pope Paul VI, Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani and Archbishop Lefebvre in 1965.

- Lionel Andrades

Do you accept Vatican Council II, Lionel?

 

Do you accept Vatican Council II, Lionel?

Yes but only Vatican Council II (rational) i.e. with LG 8, 14, 15, 16, UR 3, NA 2, and GS 22 etc referring to hypothetical cases always. They refer to invisible people in 1965-2024 and so are not practical exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Athanasius Creed. Meanwhile Ad Gentes 7 (all need faith and baptism for salvation) is in harmony with the past ecclesiocentrism of the Catholic Church. So the Council is traditional and exclusivist for me.

I reject Vatican Council II ( irrational) as interpreted by Pope Francis, Cardinal Fernandez and Archbishop Vigano i.e LG 8,14,15,16 etc refer to physically visible examples of salvation in 1965-2024, and so are practical exceptions for the dogma EENS and the past ecclesiocentrism. The Council is a revolution in the Church as the liberal media puts it. So for them the Council is a break with Tradition. For me it is not a rupture with Tradition.

It is the same Council but their premise is (invisible people are visible in the present times) for me they are not visible.

Their inference is that visible cases of LG 16 etc are practical exceptions for the Athanasius Creed, Syllabus of Errors etc. For me this is irrational. There are no such practical exceptions in our human reality.

Since Vatican Council II is a break with Tradition for them they believe they can change the Church's teachings on divorce, communion for the remarried,homosexual unions, rejection of the Roman Missal etc. For me the Council supports the dogma EENS and so there is no change in the ecclesiology of the Catholic Church. We cannot change faith and morals in the name of Vatican Council II, any more.

Do you accept Pope Francis as the pope?

Yes but he is in public mortal sin when he interprets the Creeds etc irrationally. He is not in communion with Jesus and His Mystical Body the Catholic Church. He represents the political Left.

 What about Cardinal McCarrick?

 I have never commented on him.

With Vatican Council II (rational) the Council supports the dogma EENS. So there is no change in the ecclesiology of the Church. There is no New Theology, New Ecumenism, New Evangelization etc. We return to traditional faith and morals.

So homosexual unions can no more justify in the name of Vatican Council II (rational). Ethically, the Council can only be interpreted rationally.

I follow the Magisterium of the Catholic Church (Vatican Council II, Creeds, Catechisms, Councils, etc, interpreted only rationally). The Magisterium does not change.

Pope Francis, Cardinal Fernandez and Archbishop Vigano are not Magisterial when they interpret Vatican Council II, the Creeds, Councils and Catechisms irrationally. Lionel Andrades

 JUNE 27, 2024

Vigano must ask Msgr.Kennedy at the DDF to respond

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2024/06/vigano-must-ask-msgrkennedy-at-ddf-to.html

JUNE 26, 2024

Gerard O’Connell writing in the Jesuit magazine America, has not clarified that Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano has to interpret Vatican Council II irrationally and not rationally, otherwise he will face charges of schism or be excommunicated.

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2024/06/vigano-must-ask-msgrkennedy-at-ddf-to.html

JUNE 26, 2024

Pope Francis and Cardinal Fernandez are in schism on Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church and other Magisterial Documents, when they use the irrational and not rational premise, to produce a break with Tradition (EENS etc). There is no denial from Bishop Athanasius Schneider. He agrees with me.

HTTPS://EUCHARISTANDMISSION.BLOGSPOT.COM/2024/06/POPE-FRANCIS-AND-CARDINAL-FERNANDEZ-ARE.HTML

 JUNE 26, 2024

THERE WILL BE NO DENIAL FROM THE VICAR GENERAL AND AUXILIARY BISHOPS OF ROME. POPE FRANCIS AND CARDINAL FERNANDEZ INTERPRET VATICAN COUNCIL II IRRATIONALLY AND DISHONESTLY.

HTTPS://EUCHARISTANDMISSION.BLOGSPOT.COM/2024/06/THERE-WILL-BE-NO-DENIAL-FROM-VICAR.HTML

 JUNE 26, 2024

POPE FRANCIS AND CARDINAL FERNANDEZ CAN INTERPRET VATICAN COUNCIL II RATIONALLY AND THEN ASK ARCHBISHOP CARLO MARIA VIGANO TO DO THE SAME. THEN THEY WILL ALL BE MAGISTERIAL ON THE COUNCIL.

HTTPS://EUCHARISTANDMISSION.BLOGSPOT.COM/2024/06/POPE-FRANCIS-AND-CARDINAL-FERNANDEZ-CAN.HTML

JUNE 26, 2024

POPE FRANCIS HAS SIMPLY TO ANNOUNCE THAT THERE ARE NO LITERALLY KNOWN CASES OF THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE ETC AND HE BECOMES MAGISTERIAL ON VATICAN COUNCIL

HTTPS://EUCHARISTANDMISSION.BLOGSPOT.COM/2024/06/POPE-FRANCIS-HAS-SIMPLY-TO-ANNOUNCE_26.HTML

JUNE 26, 2024

THERE IS NO DENIAL FROM THE U.S STATE DEPARTMENT. PRESIDENT BIDEN IS UNETHICAL IN HIS INTERPRETATION OF VATICAN COUNCIL II. IT IS THE SAME DISHONEST INTERPRETATION OF POPE FRANCIS AND CARDINAL FERNANDEZ AND NOW THEY ARE THRUSTING DOWN THE THROAT OF ARCHBISHOP MARIA VIGANO.

HTTPS://EUCHARISTANDMISSION.BLOGSPOT.COM/2024/06/THERE-IS-NO-DENIAL-FROM-US-STATE.HTML

JUNE 26, 2024

THE RECTOR OF THE PONTIFICAL NORTH AMERICAN COLLEGE(SEMINARY) ROME AGREES THAT THE INTERPRETATION OF VATICAN COUNCIL II BY PRESIDENT BIDEN IS IRRATIONAL AND UNETHICAL. HOWEVER THIS IS THE SAME HERETICAL AND SCHISMATIC INTERPRETATION OF THE COUNCIL BY POPE FRANCIS AND CARDINAL FERNANDEZ

HTTPS://EUCHARISTANDMISSION.BLOGSPOT.COM/2024/06/15-2024-PRESIDENT-JOE-BIDEN-CATHOLIC.HTML

JUNE 26, 2024

THE ITALIAN BISHOPS CONFERENCE (CEI) AND THE UNITED STATES CONFERENCE OF BISHOPS (USCCB) DID NOT COME TO THE SUPPORT OF PRESIDENT JOSEPH BIDEN A CATHOLIC, WHO INTERPRETS VATICAN COUNCIL II IRRATIONALLY AND NOT RATIONALLY AND CONTINUES WITH THE DISHONESTY. THEY ARE NOT EXPECTED TO DENY THAT POPE FRANCIS, CARDINAL FERNANDEZ AND THE U.S CARDINALS ARE ALSO INTERPRETING THE COUNCIL HERETICALLY AND SCHISMATICALLY.

HTTPS://EUCHARISTANDMISSION.BLOGSPOT.COM/2024/06/JUNE-16-2024-ITALIAN-BISHOPS-CONFERENCE.HTML

 JUNE 26, 2024

EVEN JOHN ALLEN AT CRUX, EDWARD PENTIN AT THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC REGISTER, NICOLE WINFIELD AT THE ASSOCIATED PRESS AND HEIDI SCHLUMPF AND JOSHUA MCELWEE AT THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC REPORTER AGREE THAT POPE FRANCIS AND CARDINAL FERNANDEZ INTERPRET THE COUNCIL IRRATIONALLY AND UNETHICALLY LIKE PRESIDENT BIDEN : THE RESULT IS HERESY ON THE CREEDS AND SCHISM WITH THE MAGISTERIUM OVER THE CENTURIES.CNA AND CNS HAVE NO DENIAL.

HTTPS://EUCHARISTANDMISSION.BLOGSPOT.COM/2024/06/EVEN-JOHN-ALLEN-AT-CRUX-EDWARD-PENTIN.HTML

 JUNE 26, 2024

MY INTERPRETATION OF THE NICENE, APOSTLES AND ATHANASIUS CREED IS DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF CARDINAL FERNANDEZ

HTTPS://EUCHARISTANDMISSION.BLOGSPOT.COM/2024/06/MY-INTERPRETATION-OF-NICENE-APOSTLES.HTML

JUNE 26, 2024

WE DON'T HAVE UNITY ON THE CREEDS BECAUSE OF HERESY AND SCHISM WHICH IS OFFICIAL AND PART OF THE MAIN LINE CATHOLIC CHURCH

HTTPS://EUCHARISTANDMISSION.BLOGSPOT.COM/2024/06/WE-DONT-HAVE-UNITY-ON-CREEDS-BECAUSE-OF.HTML

_________________________________________

 MAY 29, 2024

THIS WAS A DISCOVERY. IT MEANT VATICAN COUNCIL II WAS NOT A RUPTURE WITH TRADITION.

 

SOME 15 YEARS BACK I DISCOVERED THAT LUMEN GENTIUM 16 (BEING SAVED IN INVINCIBILE IGNORANCE) ETC WERE ALWAYS HYPOTHETICAL. SO HOW COULD THEY BE EXCEPTIONS FOR FEENEYITE EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS? THIS WAS A DISCOVERY. IT MEANT VATICAN COUNCIL II WAS NOT A RUPTURE WITH TRADITION.

-Lionel Andrades

Eucharistic Adoration at Medugorje - 27/6/2024

 

Eucharistic Adoration at Medugorje  - 27/6/2024