Thursday, 28 July 2016
Appeal to Cardinals Text and Signatories revealed - Press Release from group spokesman
Thursday, July 28, 2016
In light of the appearance of the signatories and the text of the Appeal to the Cardinals online, the organisers of the appeal are issuing a press release, below, for immediate release.
I will be continuing to act as spokesman for the group,
and will be happy to answer questions.
and will be happy to answer questions.
Dr Joseph Shaw
appealtothecardinals@gmail.com
Press release – Publication of theological critique
and accompanying letter sent to the cardinals
and patriarchs
and accompanying letter sent to the cardinals
and patriarchs
The National Catholic Reporter of Kansas City, Missouri,
recently published, without authorisation, the names of the
signatories of a letter to the College of Cardinals and Eastern
Patriarchs; equally without authorisation, The Australian,
an Australia-based newspaper, has recently published the
full text of the letter and the accompanying document.
The latter is a theological critique of the apostolic
exhortation Amoris laetitia, and requested that the
cardinals and patriarchs petition Pope Francis to
definitively and finally condemn certain propositions.
In order to protect the signatories and the critique
from misrepresentation, the organisers of these
documents wish to offer some further comment
and explanation of them.
recently published, without authorisation, the names of the
signatories of a letter to the College of Cardinals and Eastern
Patriarchs; equally without authorisation, The Australian,
an Australia-based newspaper, has recently published the
full text of the letter and the accompanying document.
The latter is a theological critique of the apostolic
exhortation Amoris laetitia, and requested that the
cardinals and patriarchs petition Pope Francis to
definitively and finally condemn certain propositions.
In order to protect the signatories and the critique
from misrepresentation, the organisers of these
documents wish to offer some further comment
and explanation of them.
Lionel: As mentioned in this blog Eucharist
and Mission the signatories of this appeal
oppose the philosophical subjectivism
in the moral theology of Amoris Laeitita
besides other errors, yet use a
philosophical subjectivism in
interpreting salvation theology.
and Mission the signatories of this appeal
oppose the philosophical subjectivism
in the moral theology of Amoris Laeitita
besides other errors, yet use a
philosophical subjectivism in
interpreting salvation theology.
Secondly in salvation theology they
contradict the Principle of Non
Contradiction when they state every
one needs to enter the Church but
some do not. They are faithful to
the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
(which says all need to enter the
Church) and they are also faithful
to dissent and irrationality.The
irrationality suggests the baptism of
desire etc refer to explicit cases in
2016 and they are personally known
exceptions to the dogma EENS.
They would have to be personally
known to be exceptions
even though these cases are
theoretically in Heaven and are
known only to God.
contradict the Principle of Non
Contradiction when they state every
one needs to enter the Church but
some do not. They are faithful to
the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
(which says all need to enter the
Church) and they are also faithful
to dissent and irrationality.The
irrationality suggests the baptism of
desire etc refer to explicit cases in
2016 and they are personally known
exceptions to the dogma EENS.
They would have to be personally
known to be exceptions
even though these cases are
theoretically in Heaven and are
known only to God.
3)The signatories to this appeal
maintain this irrational theology
and are now ( correctly) calling attention
to the non traditional theology and
subjectivism in Amoris Laetitia.
maintain this irrational theology
and are now ( correctly) calling attention
to the non traditional theology and
subjectivism in Amoris Laetitia.
4) For personal reasons and interests
they do not want to make the
correction in salvation theology and
now for personal reasons they are not
saying that the pope is in heresy,
but are only conceding that the
contents of Amoris Laetitia is heretical.
they do not want to make the
correction in salvation theology and
now for personal reasons they are not
saying that the pope is in heresy,
but are only conceding that the
contents of Amoris Laetitia is heretical.
This is all double standards and
doublespeak.
doublespeak.
___________________________________
As explained in previous statements, the organisers
did not make these documents public, since they
are addressed to the Cardinals and Patriarchs,
who would ideally have been allowed to consider
them without the distraction of public controversy
over the documents.
did not make these documents public, since they
are addressed to the Cardinals and Patriarchs,
who would ideally have been allowed to consider
them without the distraction of public controversy
over the documents.
The critique is the work of a number of Catholic
scholars who were concerned that Catholics
might understand some passages of Amoris
laetitia as contradicting the doctrine of the
Catholic faith. The remedy for this danger is an
authoritative and final statement by the
Supreme Pontiff stating that these understandings
cannot be held by Catholics, and that Amoris
laetitia does not present them as magisterial
teachings or require that they be believed.
The college of cardinals has the function of
advising the Pope. The patriarchs of the Eastern
Catholic churches also have the right and
responsibility to advise the Supreme Pontiff
on this matter in virtue of the importance of
their office. Accordingly a document was
drafted setting forth the gravest dangers of
the text of Amoris laetitia and sent to the
cardinals and patriarchs, along with a letter
requesting them to petition the Pope
to condemn the errors at issue.
scholars who were concerned that Catholics
might understand some passages of Amoris
laetitia as contradicting the doctrine of the
Catholic faith. The remedy for this danger is an
authoritative and final statement by the
Supreme Pontiff stating that these understandings
cannot be held by Catholics, and that Amoris
laetitia does not present them as magisterial
teachings or require that they be believed.
The college of cardinals has the function of
advising the Pope. The patriarchs of the Eastern
Catholic churches also have the right and
responsibility to advise the Supreme Pontiff
on this matter in virtue of the importance of
their office. Accordingly a document was
drafted setting forth the gravest dangers of
the text of Amoris laetitia and sent to the
cardinals and patriarchs, along with a letter
requesting them to petition the Pope
to condemn the errors at issue.
Lionel: Over a few years I have
been appealing to Dr. Joseph
Shaw 1, Fr.Brian Harrison, John
Lament and others to condemn
the errors in the new Catholic
salvation theology which is
magisterial heresy.
It is accepted by them
and other Catholic
traditionalists.There never
has been a response.
________________
been appealing to Dr. Joseph
Shaw 1, Fr.Brian Harrison, John
Lament and others to condemn
the errors in the new Catholic
salvation theology which is
magisterial heresy.
It is accepted by them
and other Catholic
traditionalists.There never
has been a response.
________________
The dangers to the faith found in passages of
Amoris laetitia, in light of the ways they can be
understood, are indicated by the application
of theological censures. Theological censures
are terms that identify the precise character
of a threat to faith and morals that is found in
an assertion.
Amoris laetitia, in light of the ways they can be
understood, are indicated by the application
of theological censures. Theological censures
are terms that identify the precise character
of a threat to faith and morals that is found in
an assertion.
Lionel:
What about the theological
censures in the new theology,
the new ecclesiology, the
new salvation theology which
is responsible for the hermeneutic
of rupture in the interpretation
of Vatican Council II and other
magisterial documents?
censures in the new theology,
the new ecclesiology, the
new salvation theology which
is responsible for the hermeneutic
of rupture in the interpretation
of Vatican Council II and other
magisterial documents?
____________________________
The various censures used in the document
refer either to the gravity of the error found in
a statement, or to the harmful effects that are
liable to result from it.
refer either to the gravity of the error found in
a statement, or to the harmful effects that are
liable to result from it.
Lionel: Is it normal to assume
hypothetical cases are not
hypothetical and then to
build a whole new irrational
and non traditional theology
upon it ? How can the baptism
of desire and being saved in
invincible ignorance be an
exception or relevant to the
Feeneyite interpretation
of the dogma extra ecclesiam
nulla salus unless we are
dealing with objective cases
of the baptism of desire
etc ? This is the theology
accepted by Dr.Joseph Shaw,
Fr.Brian Harrison, John Lamont
and other signatories of the appeal.
hypothetical cases are not
hypothetical and then to
build a whole new irrational
and non traditional theology
upon it ? How can the baptism
of desire and being saved in
invincible ignorance be an
exception or relevant to the
Feeneyite interpretation
of the dogma extra ecclesiam
nulla salus unless we are
dealing with objective cases
of the baptism of desire
etc ? This is the theology
accepted by Dr.Joseph Shaw,
Fr.Brian Harrison, John Lamont
and other signatories of the appeal.
_____________________________
The censures in the critique are purely doctrinal
and not juridical in nature, as the signatories do
not claim or possess the authority necessary to
impose juridical censures.
and not juridical in nature, as the signatories do
not claim or possess the authority necessary to
impose juridical censures.
Lionel: Where is the critiique
when the Cardinal Archbishop
of Westminister and the
Bishops Conference of England
and Wales on their website
consider 'seeds of the Word'(AG 11)
as not being a hypothetical
case? For them 'AG 11, LG 16 etc
is an exceptions to the strict
interpretation of the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
when the Cardinal Archbishop
of Westminister and the
Bishops Conference of England
and Wales on their website
consider 'seeds of the Word'(AG 11)
as not being a hypothetical
case? For them 'AG 11, LG 16 etc
is an exceptions to the strict
interpretation of the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
What about the University
of Bristol's Prof. Gavin D'costa
considering ' a ray of that
truth which enlightens'(NA 2)
as being an exception to the
traditional ecclesiology on
other religions? Where are
these cases personally known
in England for them to be
exceptions? Yet there is no
critique of the University
of Bristol video.
of Bristol's Prof. Gavin D'costa
considering ' a ray of that
truth which enlightens'(NA 2)
as being an exception to the
traditional ecclesiology on
other religions? Where are
these cases personally known
in England for them to be
exceptions? Yet there is no
critique of the University
of Bristol video.
_________________________________
They do not question the personal faith of Pope
Francis or claim that he assents to the propositions
censured.
Francis or claim that he assents to the propositions
censured.
Lionel: The pope also rejects
the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus and the old ecclesiology.
This changes the Nicene Creed.
This too is first class heresy.
The pope has approved Amoris
Laetitia.In Poland he has
announced that some bishops
in other countries may choose
to give the Eucharist to the
divorced and remarried.
Laetitia.In Poland he has
announced that some bishops
in other countries may choose
to give the Eucharist to the
divorced and remarried.
__________________________________
This is shown by the purpose of the document,
which is to obtain a condemnation of these
propositions by the Pope. The censures are
intended to advise the cardinals and patriarchs,
and their authority comes from the Scriptural
and magisterial texts that are cited to justify
them. Censures of this kind may be assigned
by any person in the Church who has the
knowledge, role, and mission needed to
teach concerning questions of faith and morals.
which is to obtain a condemnation of these
propositions by the Pope. The censures are
intended to advise the cardinals and patriarchs,
and their authority comes from the Scriptural
and magisterial texts that are cited to justify
them. Censures of this kind may be assigned
by any person in the Church who has the
knowledge, role, and mission needed to
teach concerning questions of faith and morals.
Lionel: Salvation theology
has been changed officially.
This is a faith issue.
has been changed officially.
This is a faith issue.
____________________________________
The censures and the references given to
justify them are based on the Catholic
understanding of faith and divine revelation.
justify them are based on the Catholic
understanding of faith and divine revelation.
Lionel: The signatories
understanding of
understanding of
Catholic faith is that there are
physically known cases of the
baptism of desire etc in 2016.
So these 'personally known
So these 'personally known
cases' are an exception to
the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus as it was known
to the 16th century missionaries.
This was confirmed by Pope
Benedict XVI in the Avvenire
interview. He said that the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus was
no more like it was known to the
16th century missionaries.
There was a development with
Vatican Council II.
Explicit- for- us LG 16 and
seen in the flesh cases of LG 8
and personally known cases
mentioned in LG 14 were
a development, with reference
to exclusive salvation in the
Church. Upon this new
development is based the
Rahner-Ratzinger new theology.
Benedict XVI in the Avvenire
interview. He said that the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus was
no more like it was known to the
16th century missionaries.
There was a development with
Vatican Council II.
Explicit- for- us LG 16 and
seen in the flesh cases of LG 8
and personally known cases
mentioned in LG 14 were
a development, with reference
to exclusive salvation in the
Church. Upon this new
development is based the
Rahner-Ratzinger new theology.
This is Catholic faith, Catholic
salvation theology for the
signatories.
salvation theology for the
signatories.
______________________________
According to this understanding, if a statement
is proposed by the Church as requiring the assent
of faith (the most authoritative level of teaching),
that statement is not a human interpretation of
a divine act or teaching, but is a statement made
by God Himself.
is proposed by the Church as requiring the assent
of faith (the most authoritative level of teaching),
that statement is not a human interpretation of
a divine act or teaching, but is a statement made
by God Himself.
Lionel: The Holy Spirit teaches
that hypothetical cases (LG 16
etc) are personally known in
2016 to be relevant to the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus as it was known over
centuries?
that hypothetical cases (LG 16
etc) are personally known in
2016 to be relevant to the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla
salus as it was known over
centuries?
The Holy Spirit teaches that
the baptism of desire and being
saved in invincible ignorance
are exceptions to the Feeneyite
interpretation of the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus as
expressed in the second part of
the Letter of the Holy Office 1949?
the baptism of desire and being
saved in invincible ignorance
are exceptions to the Feeneyite
interpretation of the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus as
expressed in the second part of
the Letter of the Holy Office 1949?
The Holy Spirit teaches
that we humans can physically
see people in Heaven saved
without the baptism of water
in the Catholic Church
and so there is salvation
outside the Church?
that we humans can physically
see people in Heaven saved
without the baptism of water
in the Catholic Church
and so there is salvation
outside the Church?
_______________________________
Such statements are formulated using
languages and concepts belonging to
human cultures, and are taught by
the Church in particular historical circumstances.
But these languages, concepts, and
circumstances do not in any way alter or
distort the truths that God asserts. They
are used by all-powerful divine providence
to express precisely the meaning that God
intends to communicate.
languages and concepts belonging to
human cultures, and are taught by
the Church in particular historical circumstances.
But these languages, concepts, and
circumstances do not in any way alter or
distort the truths that God asserts. They
are used by all-powerful divine providence
to express precisely the meaning that God
intends to communicate.
Lionel: The signatories can see
people in Heaven who are saved
without the baptism of water
and these persons can also be
seen on earth,and so they
are exceptions to all needing
to formally enter the Church
for salvation. This is the
new salvation theology accepted
by the signatories as God-
-asserting truth.
people in Heaven who are saved
without the baptism of water
and these persons can also be
seen on earth,and so they
are exceptions to all needing
to formally enter the Church
for salvation. This is the
new salvation theology accepted
by the signatories as God-
-asserting truth.
_________________________________
It is the signatories’ earnest hope and prayer
that the cardinals and patriarchs will speak
out against the errors that their critique
addresses, and that the Holy Father will
authoritatively condemn these errors.
that the cardinals and patriarchs will speak
out against the errors that their critique
addresses, and that the Holy Father will
authoritatively condemn these errors.
Lionel: Meanwhile the signatories
will not condemn their own
errors,that of the contemporary
magisterium and the SSPX on
salvation theology ?-Lionel Andrades
will not condemn their own
errors,that of the contemporary
magisterium and the SSPX on
salvation theology ?-Lionel Andrades
1.
APRIL 29, 2016
For Burke and Shaw subjective cases are objective, this is the norm.So they interpret Vatican Council II as a break with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/04/for-burke-and-shaw-subjective-cases-are.html
Cardinal Kasper will say doctrine has not
been changed in principle, in theory but
he knows very well that with the new
theology, doctrine has been changed
de jure and de facto, in principle and in fact
Pope Francis permits the Traditional Latin
Mass only with the new ecclesiology and
compromise : Joseph Shaw looks the other way
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/07/pope-francis-permits-traditional-latin.html
Joseph Shaw is not going to tell
Muslims at Oxford that the Chuch
says all need to formally enter
the Church to avoid Hell. Neither
is Gavin D'Costa going to say this
in Bristol.
Muslims at Oxford that the Chuch
says all need to formally enter
the Church to avoid Hell. Neither
is Gavin D'Costa going to say this
in Bristol.
Joseph Shaw would not say that all
need to formally enter the Church
for salvation in Britain.
This would be the old ecclesiology.
Instead he would say that there are
exceptions. This is the new
ecclesiology.
need to formally enter the Church
for salvation in Britain.
This would be the old ecclesiology.
Instead he would say that there are
exceptions. This is the new
ecclesiology.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/joseph-shaw-would-not-say-that-all-need.html
No text in Quanto Conficiamur
Moerore or the Council of Trent
says there are exceptions to the
traditional interpretation of the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/no-text-in-quanto-conficiamur-moerore.html
Moerore or the Council of Trent
says there are exceptions to the
traditional interpretation of the
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/no-text-in-quanto-conficiamur-moerore.html
Department of Theology and Religious
Studies at the University of Bristol
is still teaching an irrationality :
even after being informed
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/10/department-of-theology-and-religious.html
May 31, 2014
Joseph Shaw, Gavin D'Costa obedient
to Cardinal Vince Nicols are
misleading lay Catholicshttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/joseph-shaw-gavin-dcosta-obedient-to.html
May 29, 2014
Cardinal Nicols and FIUV are telling
a falsehood. Why do rank and file
Catholics have to accept it?http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/cardinal-nicols-and-fiuv-are-telling.html
May 20, 2014
If someone is saved with ' a ray of the
Truth' (Nostra Aetate 2) it is not
known in 2014, so NA 2 does not
contradict AG 7 or extra ecclesiam
nulla salushttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/if-someone-is-saved-with-ray-of-truth.html#links
May 13, 2014
Orthodox Catholics have no comments
on the University of Bristol video
The Latin Mass Society is part of the
Establishment which does not affirm
traditional doctrine,ecclesiology and
interprets Vatican Council II with
an irrationality which is politically
correct http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/the-latin-mass-society-is-part-of.html
http://www.lmschairman.org/2016/07/appeal-to-cardinals-text-revealed.html
http://voxcantor.blogspot.it/2016/07/appeal-to-cardinals-text-and.html
______________________________________________
Exclusivist ecclesiology?
The new theology is based on
being able to see the dead.
Remove the premise, which is,
"I can see the dead on earth"
.We then have the old
ecclesiology, the exclusivist
ecclesiology. The ecclesiology
of Vatican Council II is exclusivist.
Since it affirms the rigorist
interpretation of the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla s
alus in Ad Gentes 7, which
says all need faith and
baptism for salvation.LG 16,
LG 8,UR 3,NA 2 etc are not
known exceptions to Ad Gentes
7 or the dogma on exclusive
salvation in the Catholic Church.
We are left with the old
ecclesiology.
Who agrees with you?
The new theology is based on
being able to see the dead.
Remove the premise, which is,
"I can see the dead on earth"
.We then have the old
ecclesiology, the exclusivist
ecclesiology. The ecclesiology
of Vatican Council II is exclusivist.
Since it affirms the rigorist
interpretation of the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla s
alus in Ad Gentes 7, which
says all need faith and
baptism for salvation.LG 16,
LG 8,UR 3,NA 2 etc are not
known exceptions to Ad Gentes
7 or the dogma on exclusive
salvation in the Catholic Church.
We are left with the old
ecclesiology.
Who agrees with you?
Archbishop Thomas E.Gullickson
says Vatican Council II does
not contradict the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus
and the Syllabus of Errors
says Vatican Council II does
not contradict the dogma
extra ecclesiam nulla salus
and the Syllabus of Errors
DEAN OF THEOLOGY AT ST.
ANSELM SAYS THERE ARE
NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS
TO THE DOGMA EXTRA
ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
ANSELM SAYS THERE ARE
NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS
TO THE DOGMA EXTRA
ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
ignorance and a good conscience
(LG 16) in Vatican Council II
do not contradict extra
ecclesiam nulla salus
–John Martigioni
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/11/implicit-intention-invincible-ignorance.html#links
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/contemporary-magisterium-is-in.html
http://reader.creativeminorityreport.com/2015/05/bishop-dewane-families-have-right-to.html
ioceseofvenice.org/our-bishop/bishop-frank-j-dewane/
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