1. We can't see the dead. Period. You're a bad parody of the movie "The Sixth Sense"--"I DON'T see dead people!" Well good for you! If we can't see the dead in Heaven, we can't see them in ANY state. By the same logic, there are no baptized Catholics in Heaven because we don't see them. Stupid. We know some who are in Heaven when the Church declares them to be such. The Church has declared (infallible) saints in Heaven by BOB.
2. BOB and BOD are not exceptions to EENS. They are exceptions to BOW.
3. Lumen Gentium claims"Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience" I don't see any mention of Batism here, do you? Just like you can't see the dead.
4. The heretical part is where LG claims the Church of Christ is not identical to the RC Church, but merely "subsists" in it, as if the two were distinct. That is heresy. The RCC and the Church of Christ are identical. It subsists no where else.
--Introibo
The name is Introibo Ad Altare Dei. You can't even get the name right. I never "changed my mind." You and objective reality spend very little time together. Here's what I said and can be read on my blog: introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com
You are also forgetting that you initially called for a discussion and then when things were getting too hot you stopped posting my comments and deleted the conversation on Twitter.Since then you have blocked any discussion.
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1. We can't see the dead. Period.
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You're a bad parody of the movie "The Sixth Sense"--"I DON'T see dead people!" Well good for you! If we can't see the dead in Heaven, we can't see them in ANY state.
So if there are exceptions then the inference is that you can see or know these exceptions for them to be exceptions.
But these cases are in Heaven ? How can they be relevant to the dogma in 2015?
So it is because you infer that you can see these persons in Heaven, that I have to keep asking you about it again and again.
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By the same logic, there are no baptized Catholics in Heaven because we don't see them.Lionel:
I have not said that baptised Catholics are an exception to the dogma so why do you mention it?
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Stupid. We know some who are in Heaven when the Church declares them to be such. The Church has declared (infallible) saints in Heaven by BOB.
Lionel:
Also who on earth, in the Church, in the past could say with confidence that someone is in Heaven without the baptism of water? How would they physically know?
Again another one of your seeing people in Heaven inferences?
No pope, cardinal or bishop can suggest that they personally know someone who is in Heaven without the baptism of water.Since humanly this is not possible. We cannot 'see into' Heaven.
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BOD is not relevant to EENS.So why does Fr. Anthony Cekada say the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary religious, at the St. Benedict Centers USA, are in mortal sin for not accepting BOD with reference to EENS.
The SBC say they accept BOD and it will be followed with the baptism of water.These are hypothetical cases.
So why does the professor at the sedevacantist seminary make this claim that they are in in mortal sin? Is he not wrong?
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So LG 16 is also not an exception to EENS for you?
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3. Lumen Gentium claims"Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience" I don't see any mention of Batism here, do you? Just like you can't see the dead.
And if they are invisible for you as these cases are invisible for me, is LG 16 an exception to EENS?
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4. The heretical part is where LG claims the Church of Christ is not identical to the RC Church, but merely "subsists" in it, as if the two were distinct. That is heresy. The RCC and the Church of Christ are identical. It subsists no where else.
The subsist it confusion is based on B being an exception to A http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/07/subsist-it-confusion-based-on-b-is.html