Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it." Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him...- Ad Gentes 7. Vatican Council II
14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. He is not saved, however, who, though part of the body of the Church, does not persevere in charity. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but, as it were, only in a "bodily" manner and not "in his heart."(12*) All the Church's children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.(13*)
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II
Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848
"Outside the Church there is no salvation" 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
- Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
- Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848
DOMINUS IESUS
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Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there
is no salvation outside the Church.
However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church...
which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth...
Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.
In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects,necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic
necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).
However, this desire need not always be explicit,as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.
FEBRUARY 9, 2019
The red is not an exception to the blue' : new extraordinary understanding of Vatican Council II
JANUARY 28, 2019
In Magisterial documents the red is not an exception to the blue, the red does not contradict the blue : with the blue there is a hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition (16th- century extra ecclesium nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors, ecumenism of return, past exclusivist ecclesiology etc)
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/01/in-magisterial-documents-red-is-not.html
FEBRUARY 4, 2019
Nei documenti magistrali il rosso non è un'eccezione al blu, il rosso non contraddice il blu: con il blu c'è un'ermeneutica di continuità con la Tradizione (extra ecclesium nulla salus del 16 ° secolo , Sillabo degli Errori di Pio IX, ecumenismo del ritorno, esclusivista ecclesiologia ecc. )
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/02/nei-documenti-magistrali-il-rosso-non-e.html
MAY 6, 2021
Pope Francis's interpretation of Vatican Council II is leftist. He uses a false premise and Catholics are not obliged to follow the irrationality. It is not Magisterial. Pope Francis and Pope Benedict have to choose the rational interpretation of Vatican Council II for it to be Magisterial
Pope Francis's interpretation of Vatican Council II is leftist. He uses a false premise and Catholics are not obliged to follow the irrationality. It is not Magisterial. Pope Francis and Pope Benedict have to choose the rational interpretation of Vatican Council II for it to be Magisterial.
Similarly his interpretation and acceptance of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO) cannot be Magisterial since the LOHO assumes unknown cases of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are known and objective exceptions to the traditional strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus, which both the present popes reject.-Lionel Andrades
Fake premise
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MAY 4, 2021
Ralph Martin and Scott Hahn's New Evangelisation is based upon Pope Francis' non Magisterial interpretation of Vatican Council II. They have to use a false premise so that they do not have to say that everyone needs to enter the Catholic Church with Catholic faith and the baptism of water(AG 7) to avoid the fires of Hell( for salvation).
Ralph Martin and Scott Hahn's New Evangelisation is based upon Pope Francis' non Magisterial interpretation of Vatican Council II. They have to use a false premise so that they do not have to say that everyone needs to enter the Catholic Church with Catholic faith and the baptism of water(AG 7) to avoid the fires of Hell( for salvation).
If they do not use the red passages and instead interpret Vatican Council II and EENS with the blue passages they return to the Old Evangelisation.They return to traditional Mission, as it was known to the Jesuits in the Middle Ages.-Lionel Andrades
MAY 3, 2021
Bishop Robert Barron cites Lumen Gentium 16 which he interprets with the false premise, the red passages.Then he projects Vatican Council II(LG 16) as a rupture with the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church : he continues to use the fake premise which won him the Templeton Foundation grant
At 6:28 on the video Bishop Robert Barron cites Lumen Gentium 16 which he interprets with the false premise, the red passages.Then he projects Vatican Council II(LG 16) as a rupture with the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church. So there is no more exclusive salvation in the only the Catholic Church for him.So to get to Heaven one does not have to be a Catholic for him. He refuses to interpret Vatican Council II with the rational premise, the blue passages.
If he did not choose the irrational option he could not have received the 1.7 grant from the Templeton Foundation.
It was by creating a rupture between faith and reason, with the false premise, that he was able to collect that money.
FR.MARK GORING AND RALPH MARTIN USE THE IRRATIONAL PREMISE TOO
In their review and criticism of this talk Fr. Mark Goring and Ralph Martin have overlooked this point. Lumen Gentium 8, 14, 16 etc can be interpreted with the red or blue passages and the conclusion would be different.
All three of them use the irrational premise in the interpretation of Lumen Gentium and so their conclusion is non traditional.
Fr.Mark Goring cites Scripture too but rejects the conclusion of Lumen Gentium 16 interpreted with the false premise. Ralph Martin also does not seem aware that LG 16 can be interpreted as being only hypothetical. So LG 16 could not be relevant to EENS or an exception to the old 'imperialism'.
THERE IS NOTHING IN NOSTRA AETATE, AD GENTES OR LUMEN GENTIUM TO CONTRADICT EENS
At 7:36 on the video Bishop Barron cites Nostra Aetate 2 and there being rays of light; rays of that one Truth found also in other religions.Again his premise is that there are known non Catholics saved outside the Church, 'with the ray of that Truth which enligtens all men'.So for him, NA 2 contradicts the past exclusive ecclesiology. He uses the same false premise as the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 in the case of Fr. Leonard Feeney.
He is irrational like that Letter(1949).Nostra Aetate 2,or Gaudium et Specs 22, like LG 16, refers to a hypothetical and speculative case.Always. It is something we can hope for with good will.Theoretically only. If the Council Fathers assumed that it referred to a practical exception to EENS this was an objective error.
WE HAVE TWO INTEPRETATIONS OF VATICAN COUNCIL II ONE HAS AN ERROR.
Here we have Bishop Robert Barron drawing upon the New Theology of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to suggest that not every one needs to enter the Catholic Church for salvation. This is the new doctrine which the popes from Pius XII over looked.
Now we have two interpretations of Vatican Council II, one with the error and the other without it.
For Bishop Barron the fullness of salvation does not necessarily mean being saved through Jesus in the Catholic Church only (AG 7). He is Christocentric. He excludes St. Peter's implicit reference to the Church of that time, the Catholic Church.St. Peter was calling for a baptism of water in a particular Church. It was not independent of the Church.At that time there were no Christian churches with their different doctrines.There was no sola scriptura.
Bishop Barron refers to the Christian church and not the Catholic Church - but there was only one true Church at that time(UR 3).It was the Catholic Church.Catholics were the new people of God( NA 4). All needed faith and baptism for salvation(AG 7)in the Catholic Church.
WHERE IS THE CASE OF SOMEONE SAVED IN A PARTICIPATED WAY OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ?
At 8:36 on the video he asks can someone be saved in a participated way in these other traditions? Even if someone was saved as such we would not know.So this theoretical case would not be an exception to the dogma EENS, the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX, the Catechism of Pope Pius X ( 24Q, 27Q) and the Athanasius Creed.So why mention it? So what if someone is saved as such in other religions ? Are there any such known people in 2021?
WHERE IS THE PRACTICAL CASE OF SOMEONE SAVED OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WITH A GOOD CONSCIENCE?
At 9:30 on the video he refers to following the voice of Christ in one's conscience,as in the case of a non believer, again drawing upon LG 16. It is the same error. In principle he assumes hypothetical cases are objective and explicit in the present times(1965-2021). Who among us knows of someone who will be saved outside the Church with a good conscience ? Where are the practical cases ? There are none.So why mention them? Again he chooses to confuse what is implicit as being explict, unknown as known, hypothetical as objective and then project imaginary exceptions to the past exclesiocentrism which was Magisterial and which he rejects.He cannot interpet Vatican Council II without this false premise.
BISHOP BARRON HAS TO USE THE FAKE PREMISE TO SUPPORT HIS LIBERALISM
All this is deception and a rupture between faith and reason. Bishop Robert Barron received the collected the Templeton Foundation grant to address the harmony between faith and science. How do you address it, with duplicity? He has to interpret the Council with a fake premise, inference and conclusion ? This is the Magisterium for Bishop Barron ? In this way Vatican Council II is Magisterial for him ?
PEKING MAN THEOLOGY
Bishop Barron's interpretation of Vatican Council II reminds me of the fossils, Peking Man which Teilhard de Chardin accepted as genuine and scientific. It was a fake. Chardin based his bad theology upon this un-scientific finding to support evolution and reincarnation.
The Holy Spirit guided the Church over the centuries and taught exclusive salvation.Bishop Barron rejects this Magisterium, which for him is 'agressive exclusivism'.The saints and martyrs affirmed exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church without being violent.
IF BISHOP BARRON INTERPRETED VATICAN COUNCIL II RATIONALLY HE WOULD BE AN EXTREMIST FOR THE LEFT
Instead we see an intolerance of our Catholic beliefs.Bishop Barron who would criticize the 'extremists' (but does use that word any more)knows that if he interpreted Vatican Council II rationally, he would be an extremist.
So now with deceptive theology he he presents Jesus without the necessity of being a member of the Catholic Church.He cites Vatican Council II interpreted with the fake premise and calls this our 'Christian identity'.-Lionel Andrades
Fake premise
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MAY 3, 2021
Ralph Martin knows that if he interprets Vatican Council II and EENS rationally like me,he is no more on the Vatican's Council for the New Evangelization and will be removed from the faculty in Detroit : the New Evangelisation depends upon the error in the LOHO
In the video above Ralph Martin briefly mentions the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 (LOHO)relative to Fr. Leonard Feeney.LOHO cannot be Magisterial since it has made an objective mistake even though it is referenced in Vatican Council II (LG 16).Invisible cases of being saved in invincible ignorance, LOHO assumes were visible exceptions to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). In other words, cases of being saved in invincible ignorance were physically visible for them to be practical exceptions to EENS.Invisible cases cannot be exceptions.But where are these cases in 1949-2021.We don't know any one. Since if someone was saved outside the Church it would only be known to God. The norm for salvation is faith and the baptism of water(AG 7), it is extra ecclesiam nulla salus( John 3:5, MArk 16:16 etc).
LOHO also assumes that unknown cases of being saved with the baptism of desire are practical exceptions to EENS and so LOHO criticizes Fr.Leonard Feeney. He did not accept this irrationality which produced a non traditional and heretical conclusion.
How can the Holy Spirit make this error? How can this Magisterial ? This is human error.
This was also the irrational reasoning of some of the Council Fathers at Vatican Council II(1965) and so we have LG 16.
Now there are two interpretations of Vatican Council II and EENS.In one interpretation LG 16 is an exception to EENS and in the other it is not and exception to EENS.
Ralph Martin, Fr. Mark Goring and Bishop Robert Barron interpret LG 16 as an exception to traditional EENS.I do not do so.So there is a Vatican Council II which has exceptions for EENS and a Vatican Council II, in which LG 8, LG 14,LG 16, UR 3, GS 22, NA 2 etc are not practical exceptions for EENS.There is a Vatican Council II with no exceptions for EENS.
They interpret BOD and I.I as exceptions to EENS and I do not do so.For me BOD and I.I refer to invisible and theoretical cases. So they cannot be practical exceptions to EENS.So we have today an EENS with exceptions and an EENS without exceptions.
We also have two interpretations of the Creeds and Catechisms with Ralph Martin rejecting the Athanasius Creed( outside the Church no salvation) and I accepting it with there being no exceptions.
Ralph Martin is in harmony with Pope Francis and Pope Benedict but in a rupture with the past Feeneyite Magisterium, which did not interpret EENS with exceptions.
I am in harmony with the past Magisterium of the Catholic Church; the past popes and saints on EENS, but in a rupture with the present two Cushingite popes, for whom Vatican Council II is a rupture with Feeneyite EENS.
Ralph Martin knows that if he interprets Vatican Council II and EENS rationally like me,he is no more on the Vatican's Council for the Promotion of the New Evangelization and will be removed from the faculty of the Sacred Heart Major Seminary, Detroit.His evangelisation of course would have to be Feeneyite and ecclesiocentric if he interprets EENS and Vatican Council II with no exceptions.This would be the old evangelisation and not the New Evangelisation.It depends upon the error in the LOHO. -Lionel Andrades
Fake premise
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