Bishop Frederick Henry of Calgary,Canada still offers Holy Mass

Bishop Frederick Henry,bishop of Calgary, like Fr.John George of the Archdiocse of Sydney, denies the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He suggests  there are physically visible exceptions on earth. He denies an ex cathedra dogma in public and still offers Holy Mass.

He denies Vatican Council II (AG 7- all need : Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation) .Same excuse.He has canonical status and is allowed to offer Holy Mass.

He denies the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846) on Outside the Church No Salvation. Same reason.

He denies that the Church is the ordinary means of salvation(Redemptoris Mission 55). Same reason.

He denies Dominus Iesus 20 on the necessity of the Church. The same reason.He can see the dead on earth.

He denies the Nicene Creed which says I believe in one baptism for the forgivness of sins.He knows of cases in 2013 who do not need the baptism of water. To deny the Creed is a first class heresy in the hierarchy of truths.

He offers Holy Mass in the diocese of Calgary,Canada.

-Lionel Andrades


BISHOP HENRY UNABLE TO RESPOND TO HERESY CHARGES
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/01/bishop-henry-unable-to-respond-to.html#links

Bishop Frederick Henry does not deny heresy charge
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/01/bishop-frederick-henry-does-not-deny.html#links

BISHOP FREDERICK HENRY AND THE SSPX INTERPRET VATICAN COUNCIL II AS BREAK WITH THE PAST : THEY ASSUME THE DEAD ARE VISIBLE AS DID THE ARCHBISHOP OF BOSTON RICHARD CUSHING
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/01/bishop-frederick-henry-and-sspx.html#links

BISHOP FREDRICK HENRY OF CALGARY,CANADA RESPONDS: SSPX
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/01/bishop-fredrick-henry-of-calgarycanada.html#links

Vatican Council II agrees with the SSPX's St.Dennis Catholic Church, Calgary on 'other religions' :it contradicts Bishop Frederick Henry

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/01/vatican-council-ii-agrees-with-sspxs.html#links

BISHOP FREDERICK HENRY AT ODDS WITH THE CONGREGATION FOR DIVINE WORSHIP AND THE DISCIPLINE OF THE SACRAMENTS,VATICAN
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/01/bishop-frederick-henry-contradicts-at.html#links

Vatican Council II does not contradict itself or the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. We cannot see the dead.- Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments,Vatican

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/11/vatican-council-ii-does-not-contradict.html#links

Even though the St. Dennis Catholic Church does not accept Vatican Council II the SSPX members in Calgary could inform the bishop that there is nothing rational in the Council which contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/01/even-though-st-dennis-catholic-church.html

...and he still offers Holy Mass

 Fr.John George denies the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He claims there are  physically visible exceptions on earth. He denies an ex cathedra dogma in public and still offers Holy Mass.

He denies Vatican Council II (AG 7- all need : Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation) .Same excuse.He has canonical status and is allowed to offer Holy Mass.

He denies the Catechism of the Catholic  Church (846) on Outside the Church No Salvation. Same reason.

He denies that the Church is the ordinary means of salvation(Redemptoris Mission 55). Same reason.

 He denies Dominus Iesus 20 on the necessity of the Church. The same reason.He can see the dead on earth.

He denies the Nicene Creed which says I believe in one baptism for the forgivness of sins.He knows of cases in 2013 who do not  need the baptism of water. To deny the Creed is a first class heresy in the hierarchy of truths.

... he still cannot say Islam is not a path to salvation and he offers Holy Mass in the Archdiocese of Sydney.

-Lionel Andrades

...and he still cannot say Islam is not a path to salvation.

...and he still cannot say Islam is not a path to salvation.


Fr.John George denies the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He claims there are physically visible exceptions on earth.

He denies Vatican Council II (AG 7- all need Catholic Faith and the baptims of water for salvation) .Same excuse.

He denies the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846) on Outside the Church No Salvation. Same reason.

He denies that the Church is the ordinary means of salvation(Redemptoris Mission 55). Same reason.

He denies Dominus Iesus 20 on the necessity of the Church. Same reason, he can see the dead on earth.

He denies the Nicene Creed which says I believe in one baptism for the forgivness of sins.He knows of cases in 2013 who do not need the baptism of water.

...and, he still cannot say Islam is not a path to salvation.
-Lionel Andrades

Photo from the website of the Archdiocese of Sydney,Australia.

Being saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance is a non issue with respect to Vatican Council II or the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Being saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance is invisible to us so it is a non issue with respect to Jesus’ teaching on the need of the baptism of water for salvation. (John 3:5 etc).

Even if there was a case in the present times, saved with the baptism of desire etc, we wouldn’t know. So it is irrelevant to the dogma on salvation and Vatican Council II.

An Archdiocese of Sydney priest cannot say that Islam and the other religions are not paths to salvation. He contradicts Vatican Council II which says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation(AG 7) and those who know about Jesus and the Church and yet do not enter are oriented to Hell (LG 14).

There are so many educated Muslims in Sydney, besides other non Catholics, who know about Jesus and the Catholic Church. They are informed. Yet they choose not to convert. Fr. John George and the rest of the Archdiocese of Sydney are unable to say that they are all oriented to Hell according to Vatican Council II (LG 14) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 1257,845,846 etc).

Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, and could not be saved.-LG 14

Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."-Ad Gentes 7

Wikipedia has posted the list of some prominent Muslims in Sydney. They know. They are informed.

According to Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 they all need faith and the baptism of water for salvation. They have none. They live with Original Sin and commit mortal sins in this state and do not have access to the Sacrament of Confession.

For Fr. John George being saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance is relevant to the dogma on salvation and Vatican Council II. Since for him these cases in Heaven are physically visible! So he rejects Vatican Council II (AG 7) and other magisterial documents.

This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism (124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church.-Lumen Gentium 14

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7

For Fr.John George there are known exceptions, visible in the flesh, to ‘the ordinary means of salvation’, ‘faith and baptism’ which is needed for all and Jesus’ teaching on the necessity of the baptism of water for salvation.(John 3.5).

This also seems the understanding in the Catholic Archdiocese of Sydney. -Lionel Andrades

Vocations in Sydney

The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 says 'this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it.' Father John George from the Archdiocese of Sydney says the Catholic Church understands the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance as being physically visible to us.He can see the deceased who are real-life exceptions to every one needing to convert into the Church, which is the traditional message of the dogma.

Those young people who have a vocation to the religious life in Sydney, please note, this is the interpretation of the Letter you will have to use, to be accepted in the Archdiocese of Sydney.

This interpretation is also extended, in the Archdiocese, to Vatican Council II (LG 16,LG 8 etc), the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846,1257 etc) and the dogma on salvation(Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441).

This is the interpretation accepted by the Cardinal Archbishop George Pell and Monsignor John Usher, the Chancellor.  (chancery@sydneycatholic.org )  Tel: (02) 9390 5100  Fax :(02) 9261 8312

They will not deny it if you ask them.

Instead if they would say that the dead are not visible to us then it means there are no exceptions to the dogma on salvation and we are back to the traditional interpretation, the historical understanding of the dogma, according to the Church Councils, popes and saints.

To confirm this requirement for vocations contact Fr. Michael de Stoop, Vocations Director. vocations@sydneycatholic.org   Tel :(02) 9390 5280 Fax (02) 9390 5288

FATHER JOHN GEORGE HAS CANCER

The Australian priest Fr.John George  says he has cancer and is bedridden and wants a discussion stopped on the forum True Catholic.He will continue to believe that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are physically visible to us and so are exceptions to :

1. The ordinary means of salvation (Redemptoris Missio)

2.All need faith and baptism for salvation.(Ad Gentes 7).

3.Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

4.The necessity of the Catholic Sacraments for all in 2013.

I hope Fr.John George continues his media apostolate for a long time and continues to target the leftist and heretical Catholica of Brian Coyne in Australia.

I enjoy seeing his cartoons and comments. It makes him happy. Over the last few years they have been directed at me too. No one is spared.Fr.John George's style of presenting the Faith makes True Catholic unique among the discussion forums in Australia.He intentionally could provoke a member on the discussion board.When the person becomes sensitive and responds emotionally, he will tell him or her to stick to the issues.

Whenever he is worsted in a discussion and his patience is at an end he cries out to Sharon, the Administrator, to come to his rescue and end the discussion.She dutifully obliges often.

Fr.John George is a good priest, in good standing with the Catholic Church in Australia which generally has a heretical position on salvation as is true in the rest of the Catholic Church today, with some exceptions.

There was a major theological error during the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI, carried over from the past, and it has not been corrected. Perhaps the next pope will do so and I hope Fr.John is alive.Then he can make the personal correction in his irrational, non traditional,non Catholic view on the deceased being allegedly visible to us in Heaven and also on earth, who are saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire and who are living exceptions to the traditional teaching on other religions!-Lionel Andrades

Catholic priest in homily today says Islam is a false religion: cites St.Justin Martyr and other saints

The Church was full today. The Mass was in Latin.The priest's homily  was in Italian.He said when people lose the Faith it is because of the demon.The sin of losing ones faith, is because of the temptation of the devil.The Catholic Faith is not sentimentalism, he said. It is not just another religion. It exists since it is necessary for salvation.Other religions are false religions he said.He cited St.Justin Martry who called the other religions false. He specifically named Islam among others.Only the Catholic Church he said has the fullness of the truth.

If I mention the name of this priest he will receive phone calls telling him what Catholics should believe, what is acceptable to others and what Vatican Council II says even though it is not in the text of the Council.

I would like to mention that according to Vatican Council II, Islam and the other 'great religions', are not paths to salvation.All their members today need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (AG 7,LG 14) to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.The religions may have good and holy things but they are false paths to salvation. To go to Heaven their members are oriented into the Catholic Church (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Vatican. Notification on Fr.Jacques Dupuis S.J 2001).

The young priest today morning was saying outside the church there is no salvation.This would mean every one in Rome in 2013 needs to convert into the Church for salvation.

Fluent in Italian he spoke about the general fear among the people today regarding the future.This was because they had no faith in God , he said, and they lived like pagans.

I would like to mention that according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 846 Outside the Church No Salvation)every one needs to be a visible member of the Church. Every one needs 'to enter as through a door' and with  'faith and baptism' for salvation.

Thereare many Catholics who are confused today. Since it common error is to assume that there are some deceased saved with the baptism of desire tec who  are visible to us on earth. These invisible cases are supposed to be  exceptions to Vatican Council II (AG 7) and the dogma on salvation. This is ludicrous, irrational and non traditional. It is not the teaching of the Catholic Church.   Vatican Council II is in accord with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities. This is what the good priest was saying today.

ITS POLITICS IN THE ARCHDIOCESE OF SYDNEY

It's politics and not the Catholic Faith. In the Archdiocese of Sydney the Chancery, Department of Adult Education and Evangelisation, the Commission of Ecumenical and Inter Faith Relations and other organisations and agencies maintain that the dead in Heaven are visible to us.So Father John George can get away by saying in public that the deceased saved in invincible ignorance etc are visible to all. So every one does not have to be a visible member of the Catholic Church for salvation.

No magisterial text says that the dead saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are physically visible to us on earth.Neither does any magisterial text state that those saved with the baptism of desire, elements of sanctification (LG 8), a good conscience (LG 16) etc are:

1.exceptions to 'the ordinary means of salvation' (Redemptoris Missio 55)

and

2.exceptions to all needing  Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation. (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II. Also CCC 846).

Fr.John George knows he can get away by denying Vatican Council II (AG 7), Redemptoris Missio (55), Catechism of the Catholic Church (846),Dominus Iesus (2), the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441 etc).Since the Diocesan Offices will look the other way. They too will deny the Faith, with their dead man walking theories.

Just like Brian Coyne's non Catholic Catholica, they are all denying the necessity of the Catholic Church for salvation, the necessity of all to be visible members of the Church in 2013 , to go to Heaven and avoid Hell

Its laughable,how in Religious Education classes in Sydney , young people are told there are exceptions to the ordinary means of salvation and the traditional understanding of other religions and Christian communities - all because we can allegedly see the dead man walking saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire.Young Catholics now are taught that people in Heaven are visible to us , just as they are on earth.

Fr.John George is denying Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church,the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and other magisterial texts, with his new theory, politically supported by the Archdiocese of Sydney.-Lionel Andrades

Chancellor: Monsignor John Usher
Process Instructor: Monsignor William Mullins
Executive Assistant to the Chancellor: Mr Michael Bailey
Archbishop's Private Secretary: Dr Michael Casey
Archbishop's Secretary: Miss Josephine Tesoriero
Academic Research Fellow: Dr Hayden Ramsay
chancery@sydneycatholic.org

Commission for Ecumenical and Interfaith Relations
This organisation is a service of the Archdiocese of Sydney.
The work of the commission, which is made up of lay, religious and ordained members, is to encourage initiatives which build bridges of understanding and co-operation between the Christian churches and also between Christians and people of other faiths.
Contact: Sr Giovanni Farquer, RSJ - Executive Director
Sr Giovanni Farquer, RSJ - Executive Director
interfaith@sydneycatholic.org
http://www.aceir.org.au

AUSTRALIAN PRIEST SAYS THE DEAD SAVED IN HEAVEN ARE VISIBLE TO US PHYSICALLY ARE EXCEPTIONS TO 'THE ORDINARY MEANS OF SALVATION' AND THIS IS MAGISTERIAL TEACHING

Fr. John George who says we can physically see people in Heaven who are exceptions to  the 'ordinary means of salvation,' now says this is the teaching of the magisterium. He says on the Discussion Forum True Catholic that he is faithful to the magisterium in the Archdiocese of Sydney, Australia.

Not only is he implying that the archbishop of Sydney Cardinal George Pell can see the deceased saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire but this is the teaching of the Holy Spirit who guides the magisterium of the Church.

While those who are faithful to the teachings of the magisterial texts and Catholic Tradition are criticized.

Known to the Archdiocese Offices over the last few years, the priest is allowed to interpret Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church as a break with Tradition , using his false premise of being able to see the dead ion earth.

He also implies that the magisterium in 1949 in the Letter of the Holy office made the mistake of assuming that the baptism of desire was explicitly known to us and so was an exception to the literal interpretation of Father Leonard Feeney.

He will not affirm the dogma on salvation defined three times and does not consider this a sin. An OMI priest who denied the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady was excommunicated by Pope John Paul II.

The Archbishop’s Office is aware of Fr. John George’s interpretation of Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church and his denial of the dogma on salvation, which is a rejection also of the infallibility of the pope ex cathedra.

His error is held by others in the Archdiocese including Superiors and heads of Diocesan Offices in Sydney.

According to the Mission Statement of the Archdiocese of Sydney

We, as Catholics in the Archdiocese of Sydney, part of the universal Church under the successor of St Peter, through our common baptism, are a Eucharistic and sacramental community of Faith, Hope and Love seeking to live and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are committed to work within the framework of Catholic teaching to strengthen Catholic life, foster co-operation and service, and strengthen evangelisation.

-Lionel Andrades

MAJOR THEOLOGICAL ERROR WILL MARK THE PONTIFICATE OF POPE BENEDICT XVI

It would be said that he never knew that there were no exceptions in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 and  Vatican Council II to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Though it is possible he knew about the error but did nothing because of political priorities.

However it seems ludicrous when the Catholic Church's theology says that there are exceptions of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance to the dogma on salvation when we do not know a single such case in real life.Can anyone name any such exception in 2013?

One must praise him in the writing of the Catechism of the Catholic Church,which does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus but still so much was left unsaid.

The secular media and Catholic religious have been continuously telling us  that the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 corrected Fr.Leonard Feeney for denying the baptism of desire etc., As if the baptism of desire was a known exception to the dogma. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) never issued a clarification. The pope has now resigned and still there is no correction.

According to the dogma all non Catholics are oriented to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church. This was never said clearly by the pope if he really believed in it.

In fact it was openly denied in a front page report in the L'Osservatore Romano written by Cardinal Walter Kaspar.This report was cited by Cardinal Bertone in a Letter to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.Cardinal Bertone and Pope Benedict vaguely affirmed our faith in Jesus and then denied the necessity for all non Catholics to convert for salvation, they ignored the necessity of the Church.

Later the pope and his Curia would confirm that Jews do not have to convert into the Church in the present times.

This was not just a theological error it was a new doctrine. It was false, since it contradicted the Bible and Tradition.

The pope also allowed the Catholic world to believe that being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire were exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation. In other words, we can see the dead who are saved and  now are in Heaven.

This false premise of the dead man walking was used in the interpretation of Vatican Council II (LG 16 etc) and the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) was expected to accept this leftist version of the Council, to receive  canonical status. This is a new teaching and was not part of the Deposit of the Faith before the 1940's.It is also irrational and non traditional.It was heresy, since it is putting aside a thrice defined dogma, which is an infallible teaching.

The pope was silently agreeing with Fr.Hans Kung who said that  Vatican Council II had changed the Church's teaching on the infallibility of the pope.Since the dogma was allegedly contradicted by known exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II. This error has been the basis for the 'new theology' and it has been approved by the International  Theological Commission (ITC).

 

Pope Benedict XVI, the present Prefect and Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Vice President of Ecclesia Dei,Vatican have been associated with the ITC and have approved its documents based on an alleged ability to see the dead on earth.-Lionel Andrades


Vatican needs to clarify that there are no known exceptions in the present times to Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/08/vatican-needs-to-clarify-that-there-are.html#links

St.Maximillian Kolbe is in accord with Vatican Council II the 'ecclesiology of communion' is not
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/08/stmaximillian-kolbe-is-in-accord-with.html#links

INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION USES PREMISE THAT IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT : LIMBO
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commission_29.html

The International Theological Commission's position paper Christianity and the World Religions 1997 has an objective factual error and is approved by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger : invincible ignorance is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commissions.html

INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION ASSUMES ‘SEEDS OF THE WORD’ (VATICAN COUNCIL II ) IN OTHER RELIGIONS ARE KNOWN TO US AND THIS IS AN EXPLICIT EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/international-theological-commission.html

VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/vaticans-international-theological.html

VATICAN COUNCIL II REJECTS THE THEOLOGY OF RELIGIONS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/vatican-council-ii-rejects-theology-of.html

Former Secretary of the International Theological Commission holds that those saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance are known to us and so an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/02/secretary-of-international-theological.html#links

BISHOP GERHARD MULLER MADE TWO FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKES ON VATICAN COUNCIL II: HE ASSUMED LG 16 CONTRADICTS EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS AND HE DID NOT KNOW AG 7 SUPPORTS THE DOGMA
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/07/bishop-gerhard-muller-made-two.html#links

FOR THE SSPX PRIESTS IN ITALY THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS TO 'THE ORDINARY MEANS OF SALVATION' AND 'FAITH AND BAPTISM' FOR ALL

SSPX priests in Italy contradict USCCB and Conference of Catholic Bishops of England and Wales.

If there were known cases of persons saved in invincible ignorance etc then there could be exceptions to the traditional teaching on other religions and ecumenism.

There are no physically visible exceptions in Heaven or on earth,of those saved.So for the SSPX priests in Italy there are no physically visible exceptions to 'the ordinary means of salvation' (Redemptoris Missio 55). Neither are there such exceptions to Vatican Council II.(Ad Gentes 7).

So when a Catholic religious says that the Church is the ordinary means of salvation' except for those in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire -it is not rational.It usually means he considers the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance as explicitly known in the present times i.e people in Heaven who are visible to us on earth.

This is  mixing up what is accepted hypothetically in faith, in theory for something which is seen in reality, as a fact, real and concrete.

Since the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are only possibilities for us, they being known only to God,unknown to us in fact, in reality, they cannot be exceptions to 'the ordinary means of salvation' or to all needing 'faith and baptism'(AG 7) for salvation.

For the SSPX priests in Albano,Italy the dead are not visible to us on earth.So there are no exceptions mentioned in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. We cannot see the dead men walking in invincible ignorance etc who could be visible exceptions.

SSPX PRIESTS CONTRADICT USCCB

The SSPX priests are contradicting the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) decision on Fr.Peter Phan . The USCCB Doctrinal Committee said that the Church was necessary for salvation and every one needs to be a member of the Church for salvation except for those in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire. Why say except? Can the USCCB Doctrinal Committee members see these cases  physically on earth ?

CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS OF ENGLAND AND WALES

Similarly the website of the Conference of Catholic Bishops of England and Wales says there could be non Catholics saved with the 'seeds of the Word'.They are implying that these are exceptions to the ordinary means of salvation, which are visible to us physically, in 2013.-Lionel Andrades

Canonical status for SSPX priests in Italy: They can interpret the Council without the dead-saved being visible premise
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/02/canonical-status-for-sspx-priests-in.html#links


Bishop Charles Morerod indicates the magisterium made a mistake in the Letter of the Holy Office: the dead can be physically seen
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/02/bishop-charles-morerod-indicates.html#links


Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith cannot fault the Society of St.Pius X for 'rejecting Vatican Council II'
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/02/congregation-for-doctrine-of-faith.html#links

FATHER JOHN GEORGE DENIES VATICAN COUNCIL II AND HAS CANONICAL STATUS

Father.John George accepts Vatican Council II as an historical event - so does the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX).However he rejects the teachings of Vatican Council II on other religions and still has canonical status. The Council says all need 'faith and baptism'(AG 7) for salvation.

Every one needs to convert into the Church for salvation, every one needs to be a visible member of the Church to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.Ad Gentes 7 is placed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the sub heading Outside the Church No Salvation.(CCC 846).

Father John George denies Ad Gentes 7 when he says every one does not have to convert into the Church, since there are known exceptions. He has said on the Internet Discussion Board True Catholic that literally he knows people who are exceptions.There are physically visible cases of persons who are now saved in Heaven in 2013, who are exceptions to all needing to Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.This is a negation of the text of the Council (AG 7) and also the traditional teaching on other religions and ecumenism. Yet he is allowed to offer Mass and dispense the Sacraments, while the SSPX does not have this privilege in churches under the Archdiocese of Sydney.

Is this a case for a Canon lawyer and a lead story for Brian Coyne's dissenting Cattholica in Australia ?

Fr.John George may say that the accepts Vatican Council II but he is also saying that he can literally see those saved and now in Heaven and so there are exceptions to the teaching of Vatican Council II(AG 7).

He also says the Church is 'the ordinary means' of salvation and the baptism of water is 'the ordinary means' of salvation (Redemptoris Missio 55).At the same time he suggests that there are known exceptions on earth to 'the ordinary means of salvation'.

He claims repeatedly that seeing with 'the eyes of faith' is the same as seeing literally and so we can literally see the Blessed Virgin Mary in Heaven.We can also allegedly literally see neophytes at an RCIA course ( who die without the baptism of water).So these cases are known exceptions to the ordinary means of salvation which is Catholic faith and the baptism of water (AG 7).

Then for him the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston contradicted Vatican Council II. The Letter, for Fr. George is critical of Fr.Leonard Feeney who held the traditional teaching on every one needing to be a visible member of the Catholic Church and that the baptism of desire etc are not exceptions to the dogma.

Fr.George says the Letter is saying that there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Yet the text of the Letter, it can be seen, does not state that being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire, is physically visible to us.Neither does it state that they are exceptions to the dogma on salvation, which has the same message as Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II.

It is Father John George's interpretation of Vatican Council II which the SSPX priests in Italy reject. Since it is irrational, non traditional and with the hermeneutic of rupture.

On the forum True Catholic, except for Fr.John George, no one claims they can physically see the dead saved in Heaven in 2013.-Lionel Andrades

Canonical status for SSPX priests in Italy: They can interpret the Council without the dead-saved being visible premise

SSPX priests in Italy affirm Vatican Council II in agreement with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus: Archbishops Muller and Di Noia do not.

SSPX priests in Italy hold the traditional teachings of the Catholic Faith which is in agreement with Vatican Council II without the false premise. They deserve canonical status.

They are rejecting an interpretation of Vatican Council II which says the dead are visible (LG 16 etc) and which is maintained by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and Ecclesia Dei, Vatican.

The SSPX priests deserve canonical status even though they reject Vatican Council II with the dead man walking theory.They cannot be faulted for ‘rejecting Vatican Council II’ since the Council they are rejecting is not part of the Deposit of the Faith, it is irrational and non traditional. Canonical status is their right. The Vatican should not pretend that those saved in invincible ignorance, seeds of the word, imperfect communion with the church, good conscience etc are physically visible to us and contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Ad Gentes 7 and the SSPX position on other religions and ecumenism.

Zero cases of something are not exceptions, says the U.S Catholic apologist John Martigioni. If there are no visible cases of salvation, of those who are now in Heaven, how can they be known exceptions ? Yet this is claimed by the International Theological Commission (ITC) papers on the Vatican website. Pope Benedict XVI and Archbishops Muller and Di Noia have been associated with the ITC. So has the Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J.

The proof of their error and false interpretation of Vatican Council II is there on line in black and white.

The SSPX Prior in Albano, Italy has said that there are no known cases in 2013 of a person now in Heaven who is saved in invincible ignorance or with the baptism of desire. These cases, he said, are not visible to us. They are explicit only for God.

He indicates that when the salvation of non Catholics is mentioned in Vatican Council II it is not salvation physically visible to us in 2013.So how can these cases be considered physically known, observable exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church? And if there are no exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus in Vatican Council II then it means the Council is traditional and in agreement with the SSPX position on other religions and ecumenism.

It is for the CDF to say that the Council is traditional and in agreement with extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The fault is not with the SSPX priests in Italy.They have a right to canonical status.

The SSPX priests in Italy may not want to accept canonical status unless Bishop Bernard Fellay approves it. However, all the same they deserve it. Since they are not denying a Council without the fault premise.

-Lionel Andrades

The ‘authentic magisterium’ indicates the magisterium made a mistake in 1949

If the SSPX accepts Archbishop Muller’s version of Vatican Council II it would be a sin. They would be saying that the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 and Vatican Council II are a break with extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

The ‘authentic magisterium’ (1) is presently using the false premise of being able to physically see people saved who are now in Heaven.

It is with this premise that it interprets the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 and Vatican Council II.

Since the dead are visible on earth, Archbishop Muller interprets Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance) as a break with extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Tradition.

This is the ‘authentic magisterium’ saying the Letter of the Holy Office was critical of Fr. Leonard Feeney, since he did not consider invincible ignorance as an exception to his traditional interpretation of the dogma on salvation. The magisterium today is saying that these cases are physically visible to us to be exceptions to Fr. Leonard Feeney. This is the dead man walking premise.

This is also heresy. It is the rejection of a dogma which Pope Pius XII called an ‘infallible teaching’.

It is this heresy, in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, which Archbishop Muller wants the SSPX to accept this month with the promise of canonical status.

The SSPX could ask the ‘authentic magisterium’ to first affirm Vatican Council II and the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 without the dead man walking premise and then could resume dialogue.-Lionel Andrades

1.

The document required Lefebvrians to recognise that the magisterium is the authentic interpreter of Tradition, that the Second Vatican Council agrees with Tradition and that the post-conciliar liturgical reform promulgated by Paul VI was not only valid but legitimate as well. These conditions were discussed during the Fraternity's General Chapter in July 2012, but no response came from Rome. Lefebvrian leaders gave various statements and interviews in which they implied that it was difficult for them to accept the conditions laid out by the Holy See.(Emphasis added)

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/lefebvriani-lefebvrianos-lefebvrians-22445/

Second Vatican Council II does not agree with Tradition for Archbishop Gerhard Muller

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/02/second-vatican-council-ii-does-not.html#links

VATICAN NOT SINCERE IN SEEKING A DOCTRINAL SOLUTION WITH THE SSPX
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/02/vatican-not-sincere-in-seeking.html

Second Vatican Council II does not agree with Tradition for Archbishop Gerhard Muller

Archbishop Gerhard Muller has given the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) a dead line to accept ,a document, which requires them to 'recognize the magisterium is the authentic interpreter of Tradition and that the Second Vatican Council agrees with Tradition'.

The document required Lefebvrians to recognise that the magisterium is the authentic interpreter of Tradition, that the Second Vatican Council agrees with Tradition and that the post-conciliar liturgical reform promulgated by Paul VI was not only valid but legitimate as well. These conditions were discussed during the Fraternity's General Chapter in July 2012, but no response came from Rome. Lefebvrian leaders gave various statements and interviews in which they implied that it was difficult for them to accept the conditions laid out by the Holy See.(Emphasis added)

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/lefebvriani-lefebvrianos-lefebvrians-22445/

Bishop Gerhard Muller endorsed a leftist, irrational version of Vatican Council II in an interview with Edward Pentin.He indicated that those saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma. So for him the dogma is no more relevant for the present times.Invisible cases saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions.LG 16 is a break with the past.

A rational German Archbishop and Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) is saying that he can physically see the dead saved in invincible ignorance. Otherwise how could invisible cases be an exception to the dogma ?

This is the irrational, political version of the Council which the SSPX has to accept by February 22,2013.

For Archbishop Muller, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith the magisterium made a mistake in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 issued to the Archbishop of Boston during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII. Since invincible ignorance etc are visible to us he assumes that this was also the position of the cardinal who issued the Letter. The Letter would be criticial of Fr.Leonard Feeney for not accepting invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire as exceptions to his literal, traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

We know that there is no physically known case of salvation in Heaven which is visible to us on earth in 2013. The dead are not visible. So the CDF Prefect is interpreting Vatican Council II and the Letter of the Holy Office with this irrationality.For him LG 16 would be an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus implying the dead saved are visible.

It is his irrationality which is being put forward by the magisterium today and they want the SSPX to accept it with the promise of giving them an Ordinariate.

This is not just a break with the past it is heresy.

Here are the relevant texts from the interview given by Archbishop Gerhard Muller to Edward Pentin of the National Catholic Register.

Do you, nevertheless, accept there’s been a weakening of the Church’s teaching because of this underlying confusion of terminology? One example sometimes cited is that the teaching of “no salvation outside the Church” seems to have become less prominent.

That has been discussed, but here, too, there has been a development of all that was said in the Church, beginning with St. Cyprian, one of the Fathers of the Church, in the third century. Again, the perspective is different between then and now. In the third century, some Christian groups wanted to be outside the Church, and what St. Cyprian said is that without the Church a Christian cannot be saved. The Second Vatican Council also said this: Lumen Gentium 14 says: “Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.” He who is aware of the presence of Revelation is obliged by his conscience to belong publicly — and not only in his conscience, in his heart — to this Catholic Church by remaining in communion with the Pope and those bishops in communion with him.

But we cannot say that those who are inculpably ignorant of this truth are necessarily condemned for that reason. We must hope that those who do not belong to the Church through no fault of their own, but who follow the dictates of their God-given conscience, will be saved by Jesus Christ whom they do not yet know. Every person has the right to act according to his or her own conscience. However, if a Catholic says today, “I am going to put myself outside the Church,” we would have to respond that without the Church that person is in danger of losing salvation.

Therefore, we must always examine the context of these statements. The problem that many people have is that they are linking statements of doctrine from different centuries and different contexts — and this cannot be done rationally without a hermeneutic of interpretation. We need a theological hermeneutic for an authentic interpretation, but interpretation does not change the content of the teaching. (1)

The Second Vatican Council also said this: Lumen Gentium 14 says: “Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.” He who is aware of the presence of Revelation is obliged by his conscience to belong publicly

— and not only in his conscience, in his heart — to this Catholic Church by remaining in communion with the Pope and those bishops in communion with him.(2)

The CDF Prefect is unable to say that Vatican Council II agrees with extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors because of the irrationality he uses in the interpretation of magisterial texts. He must first affirm the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church . This is Tradition - and it is in agreement with Vatican Council II without the dead man walking premise.

-Lionel Andrades

1.
Archbishop Gerhard Müller: 'The Church Is Not a Fortress'

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-mueller-the-church-is-not-a-fortress/#ixzz28PTfLNl2

2

ARCHBISHOP GERHARD MULLER ASSUMES THAT THE DEAD WHO ARE SAVED ARE VISIBLE ON EARTH AND SO EVERY ONE DOES NOT NEED TO ENTER THE CHURCH:NCR interview

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/10/archbishop-gerhard-muller-assumes-that.html#links

CDF HAS PUBLISHED DOCUMENTI WHICH INTERPRETS VATICAN COUNCIL II AS A RUPTURE WITH TRADITION.IT IS HERETICAL ACCORDING TO THE RECENT STATEMENT OF ARCHBISHOP MULLER

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/cdf-has-published-documenti-which.html#links

Archbishop Gerhard Muller says that the SSPX needs to distinguish the true teaching of the Second Vatican Council: but he will not correct Reuters.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/archbishop-gerhard-muller-says-that.html#links

Paulist Fathers, Sant Egidio and Legion of Christ must also accept Archbishop Muller's ' fullness of the Catholic faith and its practice'

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/paulist-fathers-sant-egidio-and-legion.html#links

SSPX LETS ARCHBISHOP GERHARD MULLER GO UNANSWERED

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/12/sspx-lets-archbishop-gerhard-muller-go.html#links

Even the communities of Fr.Leonard Feeney, the St.Benedict Centers, are saying that the Magisterium has made a mistake ?

When it is said that the Letter of the Holy Office 1947 corrected Fr.Leonard Feeney for not accepting the baptism of desire as an exception, it means the Letter made a mistake.It was implying that the baptism of desire was a known exception , these cases were physically visible to us to be an exception to the dogma .The dogma tells us that every one needs to be a visible member of the Church for salvation.

The Letter would be saying  according to the St.Benedict Centers that some people do not have to convert in the present times.

So for the St.Benedict Centers is the baptism of desire physically visible to us or not? I have asked at the St.Benedict Centers,USA  and I get no reply.

If it is not physically visible to us then there is no problem.The Letter refers to a person being saved with implicit desire or invincible ignorance.We accept this as a possibility.It is not mistaken to be an exception.

If for the SBC the baptism of desire is physically visible to us then it means the baptism of desire contradicts the dogma.Then the Letter has made a mistake.For many it would mean the Magisterium has made a mistake.The Magisterium is contradicting an infallible teaching with known cases of salvation.The Magisterium is also saying that the dead are visible to us on earth.

-Lionel Andrades

DENZINGER SAYS THE DEAD ARE VISIBLE TO ALL OF US.IT'S OFFICIAL.

The Denzinger Schonmetzer (3870-387) has published the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which indicates that the dead are visible to us according to Catholic religious. The dead saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are physically visible to us.This is the interpretation of the Letter of the Holy Office by numerous people.

Since Fr.Leonard Feeney was corrected for denying visible baptism of desire it is alleged, the Church no more holds the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

According to this common interpretation, the Holy Spirit is now saying that the dogma has been superseded.This is all based on the ability to be able to physically see the dead who are saved.

Since it is in the Denzinger it is official i.e the deceased now saved with the baptism of desire etc and who are now in Heaven are physically visible to us.

It may be mentioned that this is a false view.

The Letter of the Holy Office supported Fr.Leonard Feeney on doctrine and criticized him for disobedience.The Letter mentions the 'dogma'. The text of the dogma does not cite any exceptions.
Also the Letter does not state that the baptism of desire and all implicit- to-us salvation is explicit or an exception to the dogma and the literal interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.
-Lionel Andrades