All the books on Vatican Council II in general are written with a false premise, inference and conclusion and so are the books by the Lefebvrists, Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Dr. Taylor Marshall, Chris Ferrara, the last Fr. Nicholas Gruner, Roberto dei Mattei, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.They all have an error.

All the books on Vatican Council II in  general are written with a false premise, inference and conclusion and so are the books by the Lefebvrists, Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Dr. Taylor Marshall, Chris Ferrara, the last Fr. Nicholas Gruner, Roberto dei Mattei, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.They all have an error.-Lionel Andrades

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FEBRUARY 12, 2020

50 years of Vatican Council II - drama is over : the Council, EENS, Creeds, Catechisms and BOD, BOB and I.I can be interpreted rationally

50 years of Vatican Council II drama is over : the Council, EENS, Creeds, Catechisms and BOD, BOB and I.I can be interpreted rationally.

  

 

   

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-Lionel Andrades

FEBRUARY 12, 2020

Michael Sean Winters, Massimo Faggioli, John Allen jr and Joshua McElwee agree that even though Yves Congar, Karl Rahner, Richard Cushing and Joseph Ratzinger were there at Vatican Council II. the Council can be interpreted with the rational premise, inference and conclusion. Then it will be in harmony with the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church, an ecumenism of return and 16th century extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS), with no known exceptions. None of them are disputing this. 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2020/02/michael-sean-winters-massimo-faggioli.html

 

FEBRUARY 11, 2020

All the speakers at the Rome Forum 2020 need to interpret Vatican Council II, the Creeds and Catechisms, EENS and BOD, BOB and I.I without the irrational premise, inference and conclusion to create a hermeneutic of continuity with Tradition. 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2020/02/all-speakers-at-rome-forum-2020-need-to.html

 

FEBRUARY 10, 2020

Father John Zuhlsdorf irrationally interprets Vatican Council II, extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS), the Creeds and Catechisms and BOD,BOB and I.I like Massimo Faggioli, Michael Sean Winters and John Allen jr.: they use the false premise, inference and conclusion. 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2020/02/father-john-zuhlsdorf-irrationally.html

  

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 TERMS CLARIFIED 

 BOD( Baptism of Desire . Case of the unknown cathechumen who desires the baptism of water but dies before he receives it and is allegedly saved and now in Heaven)

BOB (Baptism of Blood. The case of unknown person who is in Heaven as a martyr without the baptism of water)

I.I (Invincible ignorance: The case of an unknown non Catholics who is in Heaven without faith and baptism and instead in invincible ignorance.)

LG 8 ( Lumen Gentium 8: The case of the unknown person saved outside the Church with 'elements of sanctification and truth' or where the true Church of Christ allegedly subsists.

 LG 14 (Lumen Gentium 14:  Baptism of Desire . Case of the unknown cathechumen who desires the baptism of water but dies before he receives it and is allegedly saved and now in Heaven)

LG 16 ( Lumen Gentium 16: The case of the unknown person saved outside the Church in invincible ignorance and who is now in Heaven without faith and the baptism of water) 

UR 3 (Unitatitis Redintigratiio 3, Vatican Council II : The case of the unknown Christian, who is saved in his religions without Catholic faith or the baptism of water in the Catholic Church and is allegedly known to someone on earth who has seen him or her in Heaven).

NA 2(  Nostra Aetate 2: The case of  the unknown non Catholic saved outside the Catholic Church without faith and baptism. He or she is saved with good and holy things in other religion or with the a ray of that Truth which enlightens all mankind.

GS 22 (Gaudium et Specs 22. The case of the unknown non Catholic who is saved outside the Catholic Church. He or she is saved without faith and baptism but with goodwill.

In the Comments Section along with the report on the Doctrinal Beliefs on the website Catholicism.org of the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, St. Benedict Center, Richmond N.H,the Prior,Brother Andre Marie MICM, has not affirmed the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).The comments are ambivalent.

In the Comments Section along with the report on the Doctrinal Beliefs on the website Catholicism.org of the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, St. Benedict Center, Richmond N.H,the Prior,Brother Andre Marie MICM,  has not affirmed the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).The comments are ambivalent.Even the Doctrinal Beliefs are written in a vague style.It does not make the clear distinction between Cushingism and Feeneyism i.e Vatican Council II and EENS interpreted with or without the false premise.

I am not allowed to post on the Catholicism.org comment box. I do not use the false premise to interpret Vatican Council II or EENS.

For me the baptism of desire is not an exception to EENS since it is only hypothetical. So there are  no practical exceptions to EENS in real life and there are none mentioned in Vatican Council II, for me.

When the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) asked Brother Andre Marie to accept the Catechism of the Catholic Church 847-848 as an exception to EENS, it had to be clearly rejected.This message is not there in the post on the Doctrinal Beliefs. Neither is it there in the comments section of the website.

Similarly Brother Thomas Augustine MICM, Superior, Slaves of the Immaculate Heart , Still River, MA,USA in the diocese of Worcester, also avoids this issue. There is no statement on this issue on their website.They have accepted Vatican Council II with the false premise, like the rest of the diocese.

They have full canonical recognition by the CDF and Bishop Robert McMahon, bishop of Worcester, since they accept and interpret Vatican Council II with an irrational observation, to create the hermenutic of rupture with EENS as it was interpreted by Fr.Leonard Feeney.

The St. Benedict Centers need to tell us that they continue to accept Vatican Council II and do not interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc in the Council, as being objective exceptions to Feeneyite EENS.

This means they accept the Council as a reality, but do not interpret it like the popes from Paul VI to Francis i.e as a rupture with Feeneyite EENS and the rest of Tradition.

Otherwise they would be accepting a parallel Church in the Catholic Church which is a break with the past Magisterium on the  traditional teaching supporting exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church.-Lionel Andrades

Doctrinal Beliefs

 APR 15, 2019  BROTHER ANDRÉ MARIE

https://catholicism.org/doctrinal-belief.html

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  andrew wheeler • a year ago

  
  

  This is all so confusing and academic to a lay Catholic. I read a little at a time. I hit my head in 2016 and things go slower. I'm 40 now. I'd like to better understand the above doctrine. If anyone could explain some of it to me in plain English, with the sacraments as a basis, I'd love to know more. But, that's a lot to ask of strangers, I understand.

  
  

  
  
  
  

  
  

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    Louis Mountbatten  andrew wheeler • a year ago • edited

    
    

    Unfortunately Andrew, Brother Andre (in my opinion) has fallen victim to perpetual word-smithing inasmuch as it applies to the traditional understanding of the Salvation Dogma. There is only one exception to Eternal Damnation, and that is Faith in Christ by visible membership in His Catholic Church; no conspiracies around the Deluge by virtue of "Baptism of Desire" or "Invincible Ignorance". Rome, currently that is, officially teaches that salvation can and may be achieved outside the Church, despite all evidence and previous teaching pointing to the contrary. This isn't difficult to understand (not referring to you, but to Catholics as a general whole).

    
    

    
    
    
    

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      andrew wheeler  Louis Mountbatten • a year ago

      
      

      Thank you.

    
    
    

    Louis Mountbatten • a year ago

    
    

    Your Order was the last hope in this country for Doctrinal reunification in this Church which has decided to destroy itself. The fact that you have decided to abandon belief in the Salvation Dogma in favor of a convoluted, polemical, incoherent comprehension tells all your readers that the Established Church can no longer be trusted, as visibly speaking, it does not represent the timeless Catholic Faith.

Medjugorje – Intervista a Padre Livio

Messaggio del 25 giugno 2020 a Marija - Medjugorje

"I cartomanti ci sono perchè c'è ancora gente che crede a quelle robe".