Monday, December 16, 2019

Repost : Invisible people cannot be visible exceptions to all needing to be members of the Church for salvation : sedevacantists have it wrong

June 28, 2017

Invisible people cannot be visible exceptions to all needing to be members of the Church for salvation : sedevacantists have it wrong

ndhorner
I have to say that much of your posts, probably due to brevity, are hard for me to follow your train of thought. Do you accept feenyism? Are you a sedevacantist? I know you don't agree with cushingite philosophy, but partly why I ask is because if I am confused, I doubt I am the only one.

THEY HAVE IT WRONG







I understand.
I work with different premises.
For me the baptism of desire refers to physically invisible cases and so it is not an explicit exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) in 2017.
For traditionalists, sedevacantists, liberals and the magisterium, the baptism of desire(BOD) is an exception to the dogma EENS. So the inference is that BOD is physically visible to be an explicit exception to EENS.Only if it was physically visible would it be an exception to EENS. Only if we know someone saved outside the Church without the the baptism of water, could we say that there is an exception to all needing to be members of the Church to avoid Hell.
So this is a major difference between me and others and it is important to understand.
So for me the baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) refer to invisible persons and so they never were and nor are relevant to the dogma EENS as it was known to the missionaries in the 16th century.
So with my premise ( invisible cases are just invisible) there is a different interpretation of Vatican Council II, EENS, BOD, Nicene Creed, the Catechisms and other magisterial documents.I would be affirming Feeneyite EENS without rejecting Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite), the Catechisms ( Feeneyite), the Nicene Creed ( Feeneyite) and the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 ( Feeneyite-first part).
Since Catholics in general use the false premise ( invisible cases are physically visible in the present times) they will be interpreting all these magisterial documents with what I call Cushingism, which creates a rupture with Tradition.
So I can affirm all magisterial documents but they would be interpreted with the theology of Feeneyism. I would also reject all magisterial documents interpreted with the philosophy( invisible people are visible) and theology ( these visible people are saved without the baptism of water and so are exceptions to EENS and examples of salvation outside the Church) of Cushingism.
I do not have to be a sedevacantist sinced Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) is traditional and not a rupture with the Syllabus of Errors and EENS( Feeneyite).
I do not have to be a Feeneyite who affirms EENS with Feeneyism but rejects Vatican Council II since it is interpreted with Cushingism and so is a rupture with Tradition and EENS ( Feeneyite).
So basically what I am saying is that invisible people cannot be visible exceptions to all needing to be members of the Church for salvation.So there are no exceptions to the past ecclesiology of the Catholic Church. The ecclesiology of the Church before and after Vatican Council II is the same for me.

Good News for sedevacantists: Vatican Council II( Feeneyite) is traditional.So the popes are not …

JUNE 27, 2017 Good News for sedevacantists: Vatican Council II( Feeneyite) is traditional.So the popes are not to be blamed Sedevacantists who have gone into sedevacantism because Vatican Council II was heretical and a break with the past centuries …
 
 
 
 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2017/06/invisible-people-cannot-be-visible.html

Repost : The Church can be considered as a communion and a Sacrament and this does not exclude it being the only path to salvation. The Church may be considered a Mystery but this does not exclude it having an exclusiveness and superiority in salvation.

September 21, 2019

The Church can be considered as a communion and a Sacrament and this does not exclude it being the only path to salvation. The Church may be considered a Mystery but this does not exclude it having an exclusiveness and superiority in salvation.

Even if the Church is a communion, Sacrament, Mystery, Body of Christ and other things for Cardinal Ratzinger, the Church still is the only path to salvation ( Notification, CDF, Dupuis 2001) and outside the Church there is no salvation(Ad Gentes 7).The Church is still the only Ark of Noah that saves in the flood(CCC 845) and God wants all people to be united in the Catholic Church(CCC 845). The Church can be compared to a Door or the narrow gate(Matt.7:13-14)) in which all need to enter as members, with faith and baptism (AG 7, LG 14). to avoid the fires of Hell ( for salvation).

Image result for Ecclesiology of Pope Benedict cardinal ratzinger
So the old ecclesiology of the Church has not changed after Vatican Council II.
The Church can be considered as a communion and a Sacrament and this does not exclude it being the only path to salvation. The Church may be considered a Mystery but this does not exclude it having an exclusiveness and superiority in salvation.
It is important to note that in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 848, Outside the Church there is no salvation, when it is said that all salvation comes through Jesus and the Church, this does not exclude all needing to enter the Church with faith and baptism for salvation(AG 7). Since there are no known exceptions to AG 7 in LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc.-Lionel Andrades

The Ecclesiology of Vatican II

Authored By: Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger
THE ECCLESIOLOGY OF VATICAN II
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger,
Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-church-can-be-considered-as.html
 

Repost : Prof.Giovanni Tangorra teaches an Ecclesiology course at St.John Lateran University, Rome : He interprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism to create a hermeneutic of rupture with Tradition - 2

October 5, 2019

Prof.Giovanni Tangorra teaches an Ecclesiology course at St.John Lateran University, Rome : He interprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism to create a hermeneutic of rupture with Tradition - 2

 OCTOBER 5, 2019


Prof.Giovanni Tangorra teaches an Ecclesiology course at St.John Lateran University, Rome : He interprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism to create the hermeneutic of rupture with Tradition -1

Temi di ecclesiologia Dall'assemblea liturgica alla Chiesa. Una prospettiva teologica e spirituale La Chiesa secondo il Concilio
Continued
It needs to be remembered that with Anti-Semitism and other Leftist laws, Professor Giovani Tangorra, would not be allowed to teach that there is exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.So he interprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism.
He officially has to create a hermeneutic of rupture.
So it could have been a relief for him when he writes in  bold text and with an exclamation point : 
The Church of Pope Paul VI is Christological!
He is correct. With Cushingism, Vatican Council II rejects  exclusive salvation. So it supports 'Christ yes, Church no, or not always'. Christ is needed for salvation  but for the John Lateran University the Church is not'.So ecclesiology restricts itself to Christ as the Saviour separated from the Church.
This is not traditional and is an obvious rupture, for example, with the Magisterium and missionaries of the 16th century.This  error is now official in the Working Paper of the Amazon Synod.
If the professor of ecclesiology had chosen to interpret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism his conclusion would be different. There would be no hermeneutic of rupture  with the past ecclesiology.
The Left  would protest and  call it fundamentalist etc and he would lose his teachng position.Now the Left does not protest when the Synod Working Paper suggests:-

1. Amazonian diversity, which is above all religious diversity, evokes a new Pentecost (IL 30): respect for this diversity means to recognize that there are other paths to salvation, without reserving salvation exclusively to the Catholic faith. Non-Catholic Christian groups teach other modalities of being Church, without censures, without dogmatism, without ritual disciplines and ecclesial forms (IL 138); the Catholic Church ought to integrate these modalities. Reserving salvation exclusively to the Creed is destructive of the Creed (IL 39).1
So the professor prudently interprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism i.e the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance, refer to personally known non Catholics saved outside the Church.In this way they become exceptions to the past ecclesiology and a new ecclesiology is created.There are practical exceptons to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
The dogma EENS, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors are made obsolete.There is no more the past ecclesiology and an ecumenism of return.
LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc  refer to seen- in -the- flesh- cases- of non Catholics saved without faith and baptism. There is a new ecclesiology.
Common sense tells us that there are no known cases of non Catholics saved outside the Church with BOD, BOB and I.I or LG 8, GS 22 etc.But without  this ruse the popes from Paul VI could not change ecclesiology and create a break with Tradition.-Lionel Andrades


1

OCTOBER 4, 2019


Coetus Internationalis Patrum Working Group (International Group of Fathers) had to address the issue of Cushingism and Feeneyism in the interpretation of Vatican Council II and Dominus Iesus

 
 
 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/10/october-5-2019-profgiovanni-tangorra.html

Repost : Bishop Marcello Semeraro, Bishop of Albano, Italy has written a book titled 'Mistero, comunione e missione'(EDB, Bologna 1997) and interprets Vatican Council II wrongly.

October 15, 2019

Bishop Marcello Semeraro, Bishop of Albano, Italy has written a book titled 'Mistero, comunione e missione'(EDB, Bologna 1997) and interprets Vatican Council II wrongly.


Semeraro Mistero Comunione E Missione Ed. Edb 1996

Bishop Marcello Semeraro, Bishop of Albano, Italy has written a book titled 'Mistero, comunione e missione'(EDB, Bologna 1997) and interprets Vatican Council II wrongly. He needed to say in this book on Ecclesiology, that the Catholic Church is the only Ark of Noah, in which all need to enter to be saved from the Flood and it is the only 'Door' to Paradise.
Semeraro, the Secretary of the group of cardinals which advise Pope Francis, supports mission without saying the Church is the only path to salvation: the only Way, to avoid Hell. So his mission, like that of Pope Francis,is Christological without an ecclesiocentricism. Jesus is necessary for salvation, for Semeraro, but not being a member of the Catholic Church, with faith and baptism(LG 14,AG 7).
Everyone does not need to enter the Church according to his writings, to avoid the fires of Hell ( for salvation).The book is part of the recommended readings for the Ecclesiology semester at the St. John Lateran University, Rome and at other universities in Italy.-Lionel Andrades


October 7, 2019

Entrance of Pontificial Lateran University (CNS Photo/Paul Haring)


Professors at the John Lateran University Rome unethical : they support deception and a lie officially 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/10/professors-at-john-lateran-university.html

 

 

 

CTOBER 5, 2019

Temi di ecclesiologiaLa Chiesa secondo il Concilio

Prof.Giovanni Tangorra teaches an Ecclesiology course at St.John Lateran University, Rome : He interprets Vatican Council II with Cushingism instead of Feeneyism to create the hermeneutic of rupture with Tradition -1

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/10/profgiovanni-tangoorra-teaches.html


OCTOBER 4, 2019


Coetus Internationalis Patrum Working Group (International Group of Fathers) had to address the issue of Cushingism and Feeneyism in the interpretation of Vatican Council II and Dominus Iesus

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/10/coetus-internationalis-patrum-working.html



September 21, 2019

Image result for Ecclesiology of Pope Benedict cardinal ratzinger

The Church can be considered as a communion and a Sacrament and this does not exclude it being the only path to salvation. The Church may be considered a Mystery but this does not exclude it having an exclusiveness and superiority in salvation. 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-church-can-be-considered-as.html

 

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/10/bishop-marcello-semeraro-bishop-of.html

Repost : There is no unity with the apostles since Cardinal Ratzinger rejects exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.

September 22, 2019

There is no unity with the apostles since Cardinal Ratzinger rejects exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.


Father Matthew Lamb







Joseph Ratzinger’s Primer on Ecclesiology (Part 1)

Interview With Ave Maria University’s Father Matthew Lamb

NAPLES, Florida, JUNE 23, 2005 (Zenit.org).- When Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger released his book “Called to Communion: Understanding the Church Today,” he called it a primer of Catholic ecclesiology.
In it, the future Benedict XVI outlined the origin and essence of the Church, the role of the papacy and the primacy of Peter, and the Body of Christ’s unity and “communio.”
Father Matthew Lamb, director of the graduate school of theology and professor of theology at Ave Maria University, shared with ZENIT an overview of some of those themes as they appear in Cardinal Ratzinger’s book.
Part 2 of this interview will appear Friday.
Q: What is Cardinal Ratzinger’s understanding of the origin and essence of the Church, as outlined in his book?
Father Lamb: Reading “Called to Communion” is a feast for mind and heart.
At the time of its release, Cardinal Ratzinger called it a “primer of Catholic ecclesiology.” As with his other theological writings, this book beautifully recovers for our time the great Catholic tradition of wisdom, of attunement to the “whole” of the Triune God’s creative and redemptive presence.
“Catholic” means living out of the “whole” of this divine presence. Such a sapiential approach shows how the New Covenant draws upon and fulfills the covenant with Israel. Israel was chosen and led out of Egypt in order to worship the true and only God and thus witness to all the nations.
In his preaching, teaching and actions, Jesus Christ fulfilled the messianic promises. At the last supper Our Lord initiated the New Covenant in his most sacred body and blood. Ratzinger wrote in “Called to Communion”: “Jesus announces the collapse of the old ritual and … promises a new, higher worship whose center will be his own glorified body.”
Jesus announces the eternal Kingdom of God as “the present action of God” in his own divine person incarnate. As the Father sends Jesus Christ, so Jesus in turn sends his apostles and disciples.
The origin of the Church is Jesus Christ who sends the Church forth as the Father sent him. The Apostles and disciples, with their successors down the ages, form the Church as the “ecclesia,” the gathering of the “people of God.”
Drawing upon his own doctoral dissertation on the Church in the theology of St. Augustine, Ratzinger shows that the people of God are what St. Paul calls the “body of Christ.” The essence of the Church is the people of God as the Body of Christ, head and members united by the Holy Spirit in visible communion with the successors of the Apostles, united with the Pope as successor to Peter.
Lionel: The Apostles and the Church Fathers saw the Church as the only Ark of Noah that saves in the flood. It was the great Door through which all needed to enter to avoid Hell. Exclusive salvation has been taught by the popes in the Middle Ages. This is missing in Cardinal Ratzinger's ecclesiology. 
Since he interprets Vatican Council II with a false premise to create a rupture with the old ecclesiology of the Church.Without his false premise, the Council supports the Syllabus of Errors on ecumenism and exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.So there is schism today with the successors of the Apostles, the popes over the centuries before Pius XII.
___________________
The Church continues down the ages the visible and invisible missions of the Son and the Holy Spirit through preaching and teaching, the sanctifying sacraments and the unifying governance of her communion with the successor of Peter.
Q: In “Called to Communion,” what were his thoughts on the role of the Pope in the Church?
Father Lamb: “You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church … I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.” In Matthew 16:17-19, these true words of the Lord Jesus transcend confessional polemics. From them Ratzinger brings out the role of the Pope.
Reflecting on the commission given to Peter he sees that he is commissioned to forgive sins. As he writes in “Called to Communion,” it is a commission to dispense “the grace of forgiveness. It constitutes the Church. The Church is founded upon forgiveness. Peter himself is the personal embodiment of this truth, for he is permitted to be the bearer of the keys after having stumbled, confessed and received the grace of pardon.”
Q: What did Cardinal Ratzinger note about the primacy of Peter and the unity of the Church?
Father Lamb: He first shows the mission of Peter in the whole of the New Testament tradition. The essence of apostleship is witnessing to the resurrection of Jesus. Ratzinger shows the primacy of Peter in this role, as attested by St. Paul who, even when confronting St. Peter, acknowledges him in First Corinthians 15:5 as “Cephas” — the Aramaic word for “rock” — in his witness to the risen Lord.
As such he is the guarantor of the one common Gospel. All the synoptic Gospels agree in giving Peter the primacy in their lists of apostles. The mission of Peter is above all to embody the unity of the apostles in their witness to the risen Lord and the mission he entrusted to them.
Lionel: There is no unity with the apostles since Cardinal Ratzinger rejects exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
__________________________
As Ratzinger states in “Called to Communion,” later the sees or bishoprics identified with apostles become pre-eminent and, as Irenaeus testifies in the second century, these sees are to acknowledge the decisive criterion exercised by “the Church of Rome, where Peter and Paul suffered martyrdom. It was with this Church that every community had to agree; Rome was the standard of the authentic apostolic tradition as a whole.”
Lionel: Rome, the Vatican, has compromised. It promotes heresy and schism.It has a choice. It can interpret Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents in harmony with Tradition but for political reasons it chooses not to do so.
Image result for Ecclesiology of Pope Benedict cardinal ratzinger
______________
Q: How does the papacy facilitate communion or “communio” in the Church?
Father Lamb: The papacy facilitates “communio” precisely by witnessing to the transcendent reality of the risen Lord. This was evident in the first successors to Peter. Like him, they witnessed to the commission Peter received — many early popes were martyred.
Lionel: They were also martyred for proclaiming Jesus and the necessity of being a member of the Catholic Church with faith and baptism. They were martyred for being in communion with the Apostles.
Image result for Ecclesiology of Pope Benedict cardinal ratzinger
_________________________
The keys of the Kingdom are the words of forgiveness only God can truly empower. The papacy promotes communion by fidelity to the truth of the gospel and the redemptive sacramental mission of forgiveness. In “Called to Communion” Ratzinger writes: “By his death Jesus has rolled the stone over the mouth of death, which is the power of hell, so that from his death the power of forgiveness flows without cease.”
Later Ratzinger returns to this theme of the need of the apostles and their successors for forgiveness as they are given a mission only the Triune God could fulfill.
His words in “Called to Communion,” then, find a echo after he was elected Benedict XVI: “The men in question” — the apostles — “are so glaringly, so blatantly unequal to this function” — of being rock solid in their faith and practice — “that the very empowerment of man to be the rock makes evident how little it is they who sustain the Church but God alone who does so, who does so more in spite of men than through them.”
Only through such forgiveness in total fidelity to Jesus Christ and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit will full communion in the Body of Christ come about. 
Lionel: There cannot be full communion within the Church with the promotion of a vague Christology which rejects an ecclesiocentricism.This is a new ecclesiology. It is flawed. Theologically it has no rational basis.It is an innovation in the Church supported by Pope Paul VI and Pope Benedict.
________________________
Ratzinger’s “Eucharistic ecclesiology” follows the Fathers of Church in uniting the vertical dimension of the risen body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ in the Eucharist with the horizontal dimension of the gathering of the followers of Christ.
“The Fathers summed up these two aspects — Eucharist and gathering — in the word ‘communio,’ which is once more returning to favor today,” Ratzinger wrote.
Lionel: The Eucharist is a sign of unity in the Catholic Church and it is only given to Catholics. This was the ecclesiology of Ecclesia di Eucharistia of Pope John Paul II. It was criticized by Cardinal Kasper. Since Pope John Paul II did not permit the Eucharist to be given to Orthodox Christians. For him they were outside the Church.
Cardinal Kasper follows the ecclesiology of Pope Benedict. It has the hermeneutic of rupture with Tradition.
-Lionel Andrades
 
 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/09/there-is-no-unity-with-apostles-since.html
 
 

Pope Benedict's article on ecclesiology is flawed since like Cardinal Kasper he projected what is hypothetical as being non hypothetical, invisible as visible, implicit as explicit and subjective as objective to create a rupture with Tradition and the past ecclesiology. The error is being followed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) . They too interpret Lumen Gentium as contradicting Tradition; the past ecclesiology, the Syllabus of Errors etc. So the Athanasius Creed is made obsolete and the Nicene Creed changed. Image result for Ecclesiology of Pope Benedict cardinal ratzinger They probably knew their theology and ecclesiology is flawed but continue with the error for political reasons. It is unethical and deceptive and not Catholic.

September 22, 2019

Pope Benedict's article on ecclesiology is flawed since like Cardinal Kasper he projected what is hypothetical as being non hypothetical, invisible as visible, implicit as explicit and subjective as objective to create a rupture  with Tradition and the past ecclesiology. The error is being followed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) . They too interpret Lumen Gentium as contradicting Tradition; the past ecclesiology, the Syllabus of Errors etc. So the Athanasius Creed is made obsolete and the Nicene Creed changed.
Image result for Ecclesiology of Pope Benedict cardinal ratzinger
They probably knew their theology and ecclesiology is flawed but continue with the error for political reasons. It is unethical and deceptive and not Catholic.
With a false premise and inference they reject exclusive salvation and so describe the Church as communion and people of God, as did Pope Paul VI.
Pope Paul VI could have interpreted Vatican Council II without mixing up hypothetical cases mentioned in Lumen Gentium 8 etc, as being non hypothetical.He could have said that they are not objective exceptions to the past ecclesiology.He could then still refer to the Church as the only Ark of Noah that saves in the flood, the only door to Heaven, the only path to salvation with no known exceptions in the present times.
In Evangelii Nuntiandi Pope Paul VI refers to exclusive salvation in the Church but elsewhere he accomodates the New Theology, based upon the error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO).
So the writings on ecclesiology by Archbishop Rino Fisichella, and others, viewing the Church as only communion , mystery etc and not with exclusive salvation, is all straw. This could be a factor in Archbishop Fisichella's appointment as the head of the New Evangelisation.He proclaims the necessity of believing in Jesus for salvation without the necessity of being a member of the Catholic Church.
Fisichella's New Evangelisation is based upon confusing the subjective as being objective etc to create a rupture in ecclesiology and the rest of Tradition.-Lionel Andrades

Image result for Ecclesiology of Pope Benedict cardinal ratzinger

 SEPTEMBER 21, 2019

The Church can be considered as a communion and a Sacrament and this does not exclude it being the only path to salvation. The Church may be considered a Mystery but this does not exclude it having an exclusiveness and superiority in salvation
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-church-can-be-considered-as.html

SEPTEMBER 21, 2019

Pope Benedict refers to the Church as Communion, Sacrament, Mystery and this does not exclude the Church as being the only Ark of Noah ( CCC 845) with exclusive salvation.The Church still is the only Ark of Noah that saves in the flood, it is the only Door to enter Heaven and it is the narrow gate. This is missing in Pope Benedict's ecclesiology of Vatican Council II
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/09/pope-benedict-refers-to-church-as.html

SEPTEMBER 20, 2019

Image result for Cardinal Marc Ouellet  Photo

Cardinal Marc Ouellet has interpreted Vatican Council II as an 'ecclesiology of communion' without exclusive salvation in the Church

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/09/cardinal-marc-ouellet-has-interpreted.html

SEPTEMBER 20, 2019

Vatican website omits an important aspect of Church . International Theological Commission interprets the Council with heresy and schism
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/09/vatican-website-omits-important-aspect.html


 SEPTEMBER 19, 2019

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith interprets Vatican Council II and extra ecclesiam nulla salus with the heretical New Theology and it wants the St.Benedict Center to do the same.Traditionalists at Una Voce(FIUV) and the Latin Mass Societies and organisations, are also forced to do likewise and there is no comment from them.Even the SSPX bishops and priests, use the New Theology to interpret the Council irrationally

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-congregation-for-doctrine-of.html


SEPTEMBER 19, 2019

We can now interpret Vatican Council Ii without the New Theology.Lumen Gentium, in its entire text, for example,would not contradict the past exclusivist ecclesiology and an ecumenism of return

 
 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/09/pope-benedicts-article-on-ecclesiology.html