From the Most Holy Family Monastery website
Supporters Of ‘Baptism Of Blood’ Lie About Pope Leo The Great
Bro. Peter Dimond
ANOTHER OUTRAGEOUS MISQUOTE
However, before we consider Leo’s official teaching, we must consider another egregious misquote. Certain defenders of ‘baptism of desire’ actually present the following citation as if it comes from Pope Leo the Great.
THEY WRITE: “Pope St. Leo… Christ’s VICAR of the Catholic Church:Wherefore Pope Leo says (Epist. xvi): “‘Those who are threatened by death, sickness, siege, persecution, or shipwreck, should be baptized at any time.’ Yet if a man is forestalled by death, so as to have no time to receive the sacrament, while he awaits the season appointed by the Church, he is saved, yet ‘so as by fire,’ as stated above (2, ad).”
Their citation purports to show that Pope St. Leo the Great said that a man “forestalled by death” before he is baptized can be saved “so as by fire.” But it’s a total lie. What they have actually done is combine words of Leo the Great on the necessity to baptize people with words from St. Thomas Aquinas, and then present it all as if it comes from Pope Leo the Great! It’s truly outrageous and appalling. It reality, the words of Leo the Great that are cited in the misquote (which are from Letter 16, Oct. 21, 447) end with the words “baptized at any time.” The words of the misquote that begin “Yet if a man is forestalled by death” he “is saved” are actually from St. Thomas Aquinas, not Pope St. Leo the Great. They are found in St. Thomas’ Summa Theologiae, Pt. III, Q. 68. A. 3. Yes, St. Thomas did say that one could be saved without water baptism in certain cases, but that is not the teaching of Pope St. Leo the Great. St. Thomas was not infallible, and he was wrong.
Lionel: St. Thomas Aquinas mentioned the man in the forest saved in invincible ignorance. He was referring to 1) a hypothetical and personally unknown case and said that 2) God would send a preacher to him since he was to be saved.
It was the liberal theologians who deceptively assumed that St. Thomas Aquinas referred to 1) a known person, visible in the flesh who was an objective exception to the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) , which Aquinas affirmed.
So the baptism of desire never was an exception to the traditional, centuries old interpreation of EENS, for St. Thomas Aquinas or Pope Leo the Great.
_____________________________
Leo the Great’s teaching on baptism represents the official teaching of the Magisterium. His teaching contradicts ‘baptism of desire’ and ‘baptism of blood’ (as we will see). But the dishonest proponents of ‘baptism of desire’ have presented St. Thomas’ words as if they are from Leo the Great in an attempt to pass them off as magisterial teaching. It’s diabolical.
Lionel : The liberals and traditionalists misinterpret the baptism of desire. The error was repeated at Vatican Council II and it is there in the Council text (AG 7, LG 14 etc).
____________________________
It’s also ironic and somewhat amazing that the words from Leo that they do quote deal with the necessity to immediately baptize unbaptized catechumens who are in any danger (including during a persecution). According to the Pope, those unbaptized catechumens must be baptized immediately if they are in any danger because water baptism is “the only safeguard of true salvation” for them.
Lionel: Pope Leo the Great like St. Thomas Aquinas was saying that the norm for salvation is the baptism of water with Catholic faith. It was not the baptism of desire which was not visible or seen to be an exception to the norm. Pope Leo the Great and St. Thomas Aquinas were Feeneyite.
______________________
That directly contradicts ‘baptism of blood’ and ‘baptism of desire’ (as we will see below). The reason that supporters of ‘baptism of desire’ misquote things and rely on fallible sources is that the Magisterium does not support their false position.
Lionel : The past Magisterium does not support their present position but the same irrational and deceptive reasoning ; the same error, is made by the present magisterium at the Vatican. This error could not be magisterial since the Holy Spirit, cannot make an objective mistake and also, contradict the past Magisterium.
So there is an objective mistake in the text of Vatican Council II when the Council Fathers assumed the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance referred to known people saved outside the Church.
________________________
THE TRUE RULE OF FAITH ON BAPTISM
Pope St. Leo the Great, Letter 16, Oct. 21, 447, #6: “In a case of necessity any time is allowable for baptism. Wherefore, as it is quite clear that these two seasons [Easter and Pentecost] of which we have been speaking are the rightful ones for baptizing the elect in Church, we admonish you, beloved, not to associate other days with this observance. Because, although there are other feasts also to which much reverence is due in God’s honor, nevertheless a rational and mystical exception must be observed by us for this principal and greatest sacrament: not, however, prohibiting the license to succor those who are in danger by administering Baptism to them at any time. For while we put off the vows of those who are not pressed by ill health and live in peaceful security to those two closely connected and cognate feasts, let us not at any time refuse this which is the only safeguard of true salvation to anyone in peril of death, in the crisis of a siege, in the distress of persecution, in the terror of shipwreck.”LATIN: “In necessitatis casu omni tempore baptizandum. Unde quia manifestissime patet baptizandis in ecclesia electis haec duo tempora, de quibus locuti sumus, esse legitima, dilectionem vestram monemus ut nullos alios dies huic observantiae misceatis. Quia [Ed. Cap. VI] etsi sunt alia quoque festa, quibus multa in honorem Dei reverentia debeatur, principalis tamen et maximi sacramenti custodienda nobis est, mystica et rationalis exceptio; non interdicta licentia, qua in baptismo tribuendo quolibet tempore periclitantibus subvenitur. Ita enim ad has duas festivitates connexas sibimet atque cognatas, incolumium et in pacis securitate degentium libera vota differimus, ut in mortis periculo, in obsidionis discrimine, in persecutionis angustiis, in timore naufragii, nullo tempore, hoc verae salutis singulare praesidium cuiquam denegemus.”
In his official teaching, Pope St. Leo the Great declares that for unbaptized catechumens in the distress of persecution or any other danger, water baptism is the only safeguard of true salvation (verae salutis singulare praesidium). An unbaptized catechumen in the distress of persecution is the very one to whom the supposed ‘baptism of blood’ would apply, if it existed. Yet the Pope contradicts the idea by teaching that for such people (catechumens in persecution or another danger) the only (singulare) safeguard of salvation is water baptism. That would not be the case if there were other forms of baptism or other ways to be saved, such as through martyrdom.
Lionel: Pope Leo is speculating.He is hopeful. He cannot know of any exception to the norm for salvation.The speculation in his mind is not an actual case.It is not a concrete example of someone saved outside the Church.
_______________________
Hence, Leo the Great’s official teaching directly contradicts ‘baptism of blood’ and ‘baptism of desire’.
Lionel : Yes he assumes that the baptism of water is the norm for salvation and every one, with no known exception, needs it for salvation.The baptism of desire is speculation, it is theoretical. It is not an objective exception to the teaching on the need for all to be members of the Catholic Church for salvation.
________________________
It gives us the rule of faith on this issue that we must believe and profess. Allow me to repeat that rule of faith: water baptism is the only safeguard of true salvation for unbaptized catechumens in persecution or any other danger. True Catholics adhere to and defend that rule. Many others reject it.
Pope Eugene IV, The Council of Florence, “Exultate Deo,” Nov. 22, 1439:“Holy baptism, which is the gateway to the spiritual life, holds the first place among all the sacraments; through it we are made members of Christ and of the body of the Church. And since death entered the universe through the first man, ‘unless we are born again of water and the Spirit, we cannot,’ as the Truth says, ‘enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5]. The matter of this sacrament is real and natural water.”
https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/supporters-of-baptism-of-blood-lie-about-pope-leo-the-great/#.W-wyEYdKjIU
Posts
