Everyone agrees with me. This is the rational and only way to interpret Magisterial Documents

 

APRIL 10, 2023

I have said it before. Everyone agrees with me. I am only being rational. I affirm the official teachings of the Church. I am faithful to the Magisteriuim. Only when Magisterial Documents are interpreted ethically that they can be Magisterial Magisterial Documents can only be interpreted rationally. This is ethical. There is no liberalism in what I say.

 

APRIL 2, 2023

I have said it before. Everyone agrees with me

I have said it before. Everyone agrees with me.

At Holy Mass in Italian or Latin everyone agrees with me. I could show them these three charts and they all will agree with me.

1)         Salvation  Badge (extended)

2)       Invisible cases in Vatican Council II.

3) Exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church today.

So they are all Feeneyite on extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). They support, as Catholics, the dogma EENS defined by the Fourth Lateran Council (1215),the Council of Florence, Cantate Domino (1442), the Catechism of Pius X and the other catechisms, the Athanasius Creed, the Syllabus of Errors of Pius IX, Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church of Pope John Paul II, interpreted rationally.

They would all agree with me at the Latin Mass at the SSPX chapel in Rome or the Salesian basilica of the Sacred Heart, Termini, Rome. They would agree with me at the Paulist Fathers’ church of St. Patrick, for the American community in Rome. It would be the same at the Daughters of St. Paul book shop near the Vatican and the FSSP church in Rome.

So irrespective if they used the 1962 Missal or the New Missal they would agree with me on these three documents above.

Why? Since I am saying something obvious. It is common knowledge. It is common sense. It is a philosophical observation. It is something physically see by all people irrespective of their theology or religion. So even Pope Francis and all the cardinals and bishops would have to agree with me. All.

The whole Church is really saying the same

thing as me. There is no division on this issue.

This is not a personal view only. It is

everyone’s view. Even the cardinals and

bishops at the Vatican agree with me. - Lionel Andrades

 

          1.           SALVATION BADGE (Extended)

FUORI DELLA CHIESA CATTOLICA 

NON C’E SALVEZZA

(OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION)

GIOV.3:5, MC.16:16

(JOHN 3:5, MARK 16:16)

CONCILIO VATICANO II (AG7/LG14)

(VATICAN COUNCIL II (Ad Gentes 7/ Lumen Gentes 14)

CATECHISMO DELLA CHIESA CATTOLICA (846)

(CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 846)

CATECHISMO DEL TRENTO, CATECHISMO DEL PAPA PIO X,

(CATECHISM OF TRENT, CATECHISM OF POPE PIUS X)

CONCILIO LATERANO (1215), CONCILIO DI FIRENZE (1442)

(FOURTH LATERAN COUNCIL (1215), COUNCIL OF FLORENCE (1442))

Name: Lionel Andrades https://twitter.com/AndradesLionel E-mail: lionelandrades10@gmail.com

Blog: eucharistandmission ( Lionel’s blog).           

IL BATTESIMO DI DESIDERIO (BOD), IL BATTESIMO DI SANGUE (BOB) E L'ESSERE SALVATI NELL'INVINCIBILE IGNORANZA (I.I) SONO SEMPRE CASI IPOTETICI E FISICAMENTE INVISIBILI. QUINDI NON CONTRADIDONO IL DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS (EENS).IL BOD, BOB E I.I NON SONO PERSONE CONOSCIUTE NEI CASI PERSONALI. NON CI SONO CASI FISICAMENTE VISIBILI DI ESSERE SALVATI NELL'INVINCIBILE IGNORANZA. QUINDI NON SONO ECCEZIONI OGGETTIVE PER IL DOGMA EENS NEL 1965-2023.AD GENTES 7 E LUMEN GENTIUM 14 SOSTENGONO IL DOGMA EENS .LG 8,14, 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 ETC NON SONO ECCEZIONI PRATICHE PER AG 7/ LG 14 E IL DOGMA EENS. IL CONCILIO HA L'ERMENEUTICA DELLA CONTINUITÀ CON IL PROGRAMMA DEGLI ERRORI, IL CREDO DI ATANASIO E IL CATECHISMO DI PAPA PIO X (24Q,27Q).

THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE (BOD), BAPTISM OF BLOOD(BOB) AND BEING SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE (I.I) ARE ALWAYS HYPOTHETICAL AND PHYSICALLY INVISIBLE CASES. SO THEY DO NOT CONTRADICT THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS (EENS).THE BOD, BOB AND I.I ARE  NOT KNOWN PEOPLE IN PERSONAL CASES. THERE ARE NO PHYSICALLY VISIBLE CASES OF BEING SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE.SO THEY ARE NOT OBJECTIVE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE DOGMA EENS IN 1965-2023.AD GENTES 7 AND LUMEN GENTIUM 14 SUPPORT THE DOGMA EENS .LG 8,14, 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 ETC ARE NOT PRACTICAL EXCEPTIONS FOR  AG 7/ LG 14 AND THE DOGMA EENS. THE COUNCIL HAS THE HERMENEUTIC OF CONTINUITY WITH THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS, THE ATHANASIUS CREED AND THE CATECHISM OF POPE PIUS X ( 24Q,27Q).

SOLAMENTE LA CHIESA CATTOLICA   ONLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

       2.           INVISIBLE CASES

THESE ARE REFERENCES TO INVISIBE CASES IN 2023. THEY ARE NOT VISIBLE EXAMPLES OF SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. THEY ARE NOT OBJECTIVE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS, THE ATHANASIUS CREED AND THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS OF POPE PIUS IX.

This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.- Lumen Gentium 8, Vatican Council II

 Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own. - Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

 But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator… Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.- Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II.

 Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith…

… These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation. – Unitatis Redintigratio 3 Vatican Council II

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. – Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II.

All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men, and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.- Gaudium et Specs 22, Vatican Council II

     

2.CASI INVISIBILE

(LG8,LG14,GS 22, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2 etc)

QUESTI SONO RIFERIMENTI A CASI INVISIBILI NEL 2023. NON SONO ESEMPI VISIBILI DI SALVEZZA FUORI DALLA CHIESA. NON SONO ECCEZIONI OGGETTIVE PER IL DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS, IL CREDO DI ATANASIO E IL SILLABO  DEGLI ERRORI DI PAPA PIO IX.

Lumen Gentium 8, Vatican Council II.

Questa Chiesa, in questo mondo costituita e organizzata come società, sussiste nella Chiesa cattolica, governata dal successore di Pietro e dai vescovi in comunione con lui [13], ancorché al di fuori del suo organismo si trovino parecchi elementi di santificazione e di verità, che, appartenendo propriamente per dono di Dio alla Chiesa di Cristo, spingono verso l'unità cattolica. -  Lumen Gentium 8, Vatican Council II.

Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.

I catecumeni che per impulso dello Spirito Santo desiderano ed espressamente vogliono essere incorporati alla Chiesa, vengono ad essa congiunti da questo stesso desiderio, e la madre Chiesa li avvolge come già suoi con il proprio amore e con le proprie cure.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.

Gaudium et Specs 22

E ciò vale non solamente per i cristiani, ma anche per tutti gli uomini di buona volontà, nel cui cuore lavora invisibilmente la grazia (39). Cristo, infatti, è morto per tutti (40) e la vocazione ultima dell'uomo è effettivamente una sola, quella divina; perciò dobbiamo ritenere che lo Spirito Santo dia a tutti la possibilità di venire associati, nel modo che Dio conosce, al mistero pasquale.-Gaudium et Specs 22

3. EXCLUSIVE SALVATION IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TODAY

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism124 and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church…- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 845-846

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.- Catechism of the Catholic Church

 846 …Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door…

 Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.-Athanasius Creed

 Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "There is but one  universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved."

ONLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH   SOLAMENTE LA CHIESA CATTOLICA

 SALVEZZA ESCLUSIVA NELLA CHIESA CATTOLICA

14. Il santo Concilio si rivolge quindi prima di tutto ai fedeli cattolici. Esso, basandosi sulla sacra Scrittura e sulla tradizione, insegna che questa Chiesa peregrinante è necessaria alla salvezza. Solo il Cristo, infatti, presente in mezzo a noi nel suo corpo che è la Chiesa, è il mediatore e la via della salvezza; ora egli stesso, inculcando espressamente la necessità della fede e del battesimo (cfr. Gv 3,5), ha nello stesso tempo confermato la necessità della Chiesa, nella quale gli uomini entrano per il battesimo come per una porta. Perciò non possono salvarsi quegli uomini, i quali, pur non ignorando che la Chiesa cattolica è stata fondata da Dio per mezzo di Gesù Cristo come necessaria, non vorranno entrare in essa o in essa perseverare.-Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

È dunque necessario che tutti si convertano al Cristo conosciuto attraverso la predicazione della Chiesa, ed a lui e alla Chiesa, suo corpo, siano incorporati attraverso il battesimo (39). Cristo stesso infatti, « ribadendo espressamente la necessità della fede e del battesimo (cfr. Mc 16,16; Gv 3,5), ha confermato simultaneamente la necessità della Chiesa, nella quale gli uomini entrano, per così dire, attraverso la porta del battesimo.- Ad Gentes 7, Concilio Vaticano II.

 

CATECHISMO DELLA CHIESA CATTOLICA 845-846

845 Proprio per riunire di nuovo tutti i suoi figli, dispersi e sviati dal peccato, il Padre ha voluto convocare l'intera umanità nella Chiesa del Figlio suo. La Chiesa è il luogo in cui l'umanità deve ritrovare l'unità e la salvezza. È il « mondo riconciliato ». È la nave che, « pleno dominicae crucis velo Sancti Spiritus flatu in hoc bene navigat mundo – spiegate le vele della croce del Signore al soffio dello Spirito Santo, naviga sicura in questo mondo »; secondo un'altra immagine, cara ai Padri della Chiesa, è l'arca di Noè che, sola, salva dal diluvio. 

«Fuori della Chiesa non c'è salvezza»

846 Come bisogna intendere questa affermazione spesso ripetuta dai Padri della Chiesa? Formulata in modo positivo, significa che ogni salvezza viene da Cristo-Capo per mezzo della Chiesa che è il suo corpo:

Il santo Concilio « insegna, appoggiandosi sulla Sacra Scrittura e sulla Tradizione, che questa Chiesa pellegrinante è necessaria alla salvezza. Infatti solo Cristo, presente per noi nel suo corpo, che è la Chiesa, è il Mediatore e la Via della salvezza; ora egli, inculcando espressamente la necessità della fede e del Battesimo, ha insieme confermato la necessità della Chiesa, nella quale gli uomini entrano mediante il Battesimo come per la porta. Perciò non potrebbero salvarsi quegli uomini, i quali, non ignorando che la Chiesa cattolica è stata da Dio per mezzo di Gesù Cristo fondata come necessaria, non avessero tuttavia voluto entrare in essa o in essa perseverare”.- Catechismo della Chiesa Cattolica 845-846

Chiunque si salverà, prima di tutto è necessario che abbia la fede Cattolica. Quale fede, a meno che ognuno non si mantenga integro e incontaminato, senza dubbio perirà in eterno. - Athanasius Creed

Non c'è ma una Chiesa universale dei fedeli, al di fuori della quale nessuno si salva". - Concilio Lateranense IV (1215)

Feeneyism says invisible cases are invisible .The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are physically invisible for us. So they are not exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

 

 APRIL 8, 2023

Two versions of Feeneyism : Wikipedia needs to be updated

 Leonard Edward Feeney (February 18, 1897 – January 30, 1978) was an American Jesuit priest, poet, lyricist, and essayist.

He articulated a strict interpretation of the Roman Catholic doctrine extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation"). He took the position that baptism of blood and baptism of desire are unavailing and that therefore no non-Catholics will be saved - Wikipedia 

Lionel :

unavailing : Fr. Leonard Feeney means there are  'no known and visible cases' of the baptism of desire to contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

_______________________  

Wikipedia

Feeneyism is a Christian doctrine, associated with Leonard Feeney, which advocates an interpretation of the dogma extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation") which is that only Catholics can go to heaven and that only those baptised with water can go to heaven. Feeneyism opposes the doctrines of baptism of desire and baptism of blood as well as the view that non-Catholics can go to heaven.

Feeneyism is considered a heresy by the Catholic Church; some Catholics refer to Feeneyism as the Boston heresy. - Wikipedia 

Lionel : 

Feeneyism is a Catholic doctrine, associated with Leonard Feeney and the Fourth Lateran Council (12159 and the Council of Florence (1442) which defined extra ecclesiam nulla salus as a dogma of the Catholic Church.  These Councils advocate an interpretation of the dogma extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation") which is that only Catholics can go to heaven and that only those baptised with water can go to heaven. If a non Catholic goes to Heaven he will be a Catholic there and not a non Catholic.

Feeneyism does not oppose the doctrines of baptism of desire and baptism of blood but considres them specualtive and hypothetical and known only to God, if they exist . So they do not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus , which says that in Heaven there are only Catholics.

Feeneyism is considered a heresy by the the Jewish  Left and their supporters in the Catholic Church who refer to to Feeneyism as the Boston heresy. Other Catholics refer to the Boston Heresy as the heresy of Pope Pius XII, Cardinal Richard Cushing and the Jesuits. They assumed unknown and invisible cases of the baptism of desire etc were visible and known exceptions for EENS according the the Church Councils in the Middle Ages.- L.ionel  Andrades

____________________________

CONDEMNATION OF FEENEYISM[EDIT]

In a 1949 letter to Cardinal Cushing, Archbishop of Boston, the Holy Office condemned Feeney's teaching that only those formally baptized in the Catholic Church can be saved. The Holy Office affirmed that those baptized by their desire can be saved. This letter was sent by Cardinal Francesco Marchetti Selvaggiani to Cardinal Cushing. This letter stated among other things:^[9][10]

The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as She is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to Her by desire and longing. However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God. These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, On the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.— Letter of the Holy Office 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeneyism

Lionel :

 Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member

The dogma EENS of the Church Councils says that one needs to be a member of the Catholic Church for salvation and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is here saying in this Letter that one does not have to be a member. This is heresy. It is also schism with the Magisterium over the centuries.

The Letter also confuses invisible cases of the BOD, BOB and I.I as visible exceptions for the strict interpretation of EENS, of the Church Councils and Fr. Leonard Feeney. This is irrational. It is also unethical and dishonest. This is a scandal.

Vatican Council II (Wikipedia)

• Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 14: "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it."
• Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 16: "Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation", means, if put in positive terms, that "all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body", and it "is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church".^[44]

At the same time, it adds: "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

The Church has also declared that "she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter", and that "those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways." - Wikipedia 

Lionel :  

Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, 14: "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it."

Those who are in invincible ignorance and who are saved are known only to God. So these are not practical exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). We must not confuse what is invisible as being visible.

Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, 16: "Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."

 Lionel:

Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.

 Yes hypothetically and it will include Catholic faith and baptism of water since this the teaching of the Councils, Catechisms and Creeds.

Hypothetical cases must not be projected as being objective exceptions for the dogma EENS in 1949-2023.

 

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation", means, if put in positive terms, that "all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body", and it "is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church".

Lionel : Yes all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body and all need to enter the Church with faith and baptism to avoid Hell ( for salvation). There are no physically visible exceptions (Council of Florence etc). Those who through no fault of their own  who do not know Christ and His Church also need to enter the Church as members to be saved from Hell. If anyone is saved in invincible ignorance, he or she would only be known to God. In Heaven he or she would be a Catholic. God would provide a preacher to teach them the faith and baptise them, as St. Thomas Aquinas said. The norm for salvation is faith and baptism (AG 7) and not invincible ignorance(LG 14 etc).There are not 'explicit' and 'literal' cases of being saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire.

_____________

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Wikipedia)

Strict interpretation[edit]

See also: Feeneyism

Some sedevacantists called Feeneyists (such as the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary of New Hampshire) believe that only baptized Catholics can be saved. They reject of concept of baptism by desire and baptism of blood, and say that only a properly performed rite with the use of water and the requisite words is sufficient

 

Lionel : The Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary in New Hampshire, USA are not sedevacantists. They accept Pope Francis as the pope.They believe that only baptised Catholics who live the Catholic Faith and die without mortal sins on their soul can be saved since this is the teaching of the Catholic Church. This is the teaching of the Church in Magisterial Documents interpreted rationally.

This is the teaching of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) and the Council of Florence (1442) which did not mention any exceptions. The two Councils are not contradicted by hypothetical and unknown cases of the baptism of desire (BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I).

The two Councils and the BOD, BOB and I.I are interpreted rationally by the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. They do not confuse what is invisible as being visible and then project false exceptions for the dogma EENS. So they do not reject BOD, BOB and I.I which can only be hypothetical.They do not  project them as exceptions for Feeneyite EENS.- Lionel Andrades

SALVATION AND THE CHURCH

by Bradley Eli M.Div., Ma.Th.  •  ChurchMilitant.com  •  August 31, 2020

LUKE 13:23: 'LORD, ARE THEY FEW THAT ARE SAVED?'

The Catholic Church infallibly teaches the truth that "Outside the Church, there is no salvation." The Church isn't saying here that only Catholics go to Heaven but that all graces needed for salvation originate in Christ and pass through His Mystical Body, the Church. 

Lionel: The Catholic Church is saying here that there are only Catholics in Heaven. If there are non Catholics who are going to Heaven, in Heaven they will only be Catholic. The Church is saying this when Magisterial Documents( Councils, Creeds and Catechisms) are interpreted rationally and not irrationally. Bradley Eli interprets Vatican Council II irrationally.

_____________________

Section 846 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms that this dogma does mean "All salvation comes from Christ the head through the Church, which is His body."

Lionel: Yes all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church, which is His Body and all need to enter the Catholic Church with faith and the baptism of water for salvaton ( Ad Gentes 7, Lumen Gentium 14, Catechism of the Catholic Church 845, 846, Fourth Lateran Council (1215) etc). When Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are interpreted rationally there is no contradiction. There is no rupture with the Fourth Council of Florence (1215) on the strict interpretation of EENS, with no known exceptions.

____________________

Those unable to know this truth have what's called invincible ignorance. A little Jewish girl who dies at the age of 6 might be such a person.

Lionel : Yes there could be someone in invincible ignorance and if the person is to be saved this case would only be known to God. For us humans they are theoretical and speculative. We cannot point out any person and say that this or that person will go to Heaven even if he is in invincible ignorance. We cannot meet or see someone saved in invincible ignorance. They are invisible in our reality. So they are not practical exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Council of Florence 1442).

_______________________

Of these, Pope Pius IX in his 1863 encyclical, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, wrote:

It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life, since God ... will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin.

Lionel: Yes and we cannot project this case of invincible ignorance as an exception for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). It was known to Pope Pius IX that these are theoretical cases and not objective exceptions for the dogma EENS.That these are hypothetical cases is common sense. It was known through the centuries.

 It was only in 1949 in the Letter of the Holy Office (CDF) that a mistake was made. It was assumed that invincible ignorance was a visible case. Bradley Eli makes this mistake. This is the common  formation- error in the Catholic seminaries and universities all over the world.

___________________________ 

As cited in Denzinger §1677, Pius IX adds:

But, the Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church is well known; and also that those who are obstinate toward the authority and definitions of the same Church, and who persistently separate themselves from the unity of the Church, and from the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom "the guardianship of the vine has been entrusted by the Savior," cannot obtain eternal salvation.

Lionel : The 1949 Letter of the Holy Office was placed in the Denzinger by the liberals. It was put there along with its objective mistake. Catholics are not obligated to follow the second part of the 1949 LOHO which contradicts the first part which affirmed traditional EENS. It does this with a fake premise.

The 1949 LOHO is not Magisterial, even though it was accepted by Rahner, Ratzinger, Kung and Congar, since the Holy Spirit cannot make an objective mistake. With this objective mistake, confusing what is invisible as being visible, unknown as being known, alleged practical exceptions were created for the Magisterial interpretation of EENS over the centuries.

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Vatican II repeats this admonition in Lumen Gentium §14: "Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved. ... Not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged."

Lionel :  Yes whoever knows and does not enter is oriented to Hell. But it does not mean that we know of any one in particular who will go to Heaven outside the Church, with invincible ignorance. All people in general need Catholic faith and the baptism of water for salvation (AG 7). All. Those who know and those who do not know, need to accept Jesus in only the Catholic Church for salvation ( to avoid Hell ). Lumen Gentium 14 refers to those ‘who know’ since the Council Fathers, the liberals, interpreted 'being saved in invincible ignorance', irrationally, like the 1949 LOHO. They assumed that the baptism of desire (BOD) and being saved in invincible ignorance (I.I) referred to 'known and visible non Catholics' in 1949-1965 who were saved outside the Catholic Church, without faith and the baptism of water. But the Councils from the 12^th to the 16^th century are clear. All need to be members of the Church for salvation. All. The word all is also used in Ad Gentes 7. It says all need faith and the baptism of water, for salvation (AG 7, Vatican Council II) The BOD and I.I are not exceptions or relevant for AG 7 or the dogma EENS.

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Religious pluralism (Wikipedia)

The Catholic Church, unlike some Protestant denominations, affirms "developmental theology," understood to mean that the "Holy Spirit, in and through the evolving and often confused circumstances of concrete history, is gradually bringing the Church to an ever more mature understanding of the deposit of faith (the saving truths entrusted by Jesus Christ to the Apostles—these as such cannot be changed or added to). The Church comes to recognize baptism of desire quite early in its history. Later, the Church realizes that Romans 2:14–16, for example, allows for the salvation of non-Christians who do not have unobstructed exposure to Christian teachings: "When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires… They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts…^[25] Various forms of "implicit faith" come to hold standing, until at Vatican Council II, the Church declares: "Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life" (#16). Vatican Council II in its Declaration Nostra aetate addresses the non-Christian religions with respect and appreciation, affirming the goodness found in them. Since Vatican Council II, Catholic dialogists in particular are working out the implications of John Paul II's statement, in Redemptor hominis #6 that Christians should recognize "the Holy Spirit operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body of Christ." - Religious pluralism, Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_pluralism

Lionel:

The Catholic Church, unlike some Protestant denominations, affirms "developmental theology," understood to mean that the "Holy Spirit, in and through the evolving and often confused circumstances of concrete history, is gradually bringing the Church to an ever more mature understanding of the deposit of faith (the saving truths entrusted by Jesus Christ to the Apostles—these as such cannot be changed or added to). The Church comes to recognize baptism of desire quite early in its history. Later, the Church realizes that Romans 2:14–16, for example, allows for the salvation of non-Christians who do not have unobstructed exposure to Christian teachings: "When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires… They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts…^[25] Various forms of "implicit faith" come to hold standing, until at Vatican Council II, the Church declares: "Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life" (#16). Vatican Council II in its Declaration Nostra aetate addresses the non-Christian religions with respect and appreciation, affirming the goodness found in them. Since Vatican Council II, Catholic dialogists in particular are working out the implications of John Paul II's statement, in Redemptor hominis #6 that Christians should recognize "the Holy Spirit operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body of Christ." - Religious pluralism, Wikipedia

"developmental theology," understood to mean that the "Holy Spirit, in and through the evolving and often confused circumstances of concrete history, is gradually bringing the Church to an ever more mature understanding of the deposit of faith (the saving truths entrusted by Jesus Christ to the Apostles—these as such cannot be changed or added to). 

There cannot be ‘development theology’ by confusing what is invisible as being visible and then projecting alleged practical exceptions for the past ecclesiocentric ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.

The Church comes to recognize baptism of desire quite early in its history. Later, the Church realizes that Romans 2:14–16, for example, allows for the salvation of non-Christians who do not have unobstructed exposure to Christian teachings.

Even the references to the baptism of desire in early history were to hypothetical and speculative cases only. They are not objective cases. This is a given.

). Vatican Council II in its Declaration Nostra aetate addresses the non-Christian religions with respect and appreciation, affirming the goodness found in them. Since Vatican Council II, Catholic dialogists in particular are working out the implications of John Paul II's statement, in Redemptor hominis #6 that Christians should recognize "the Holy Spirit operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body of Christ." 

 Yes the Holy Spirit can act outside the visible confines of the Church (LG 8) and there are good things in other religions. However the religions are not paths to salvation (CDF, Notification on Fr. Jacques Dupuis sj, 2001).Other religions also have errors and superstition, Pope John Paul II tells us in Dominus Iesus.

We also cannot say that a particular will be saved or has been saved outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church where the true Church of Christ ‘subsists’ (LG 8).We cannot say that anyone in particular will be saved outside the Church with ‘elements of sanctification and truth in other religions’ (LG 8), good and holy things in other religions (NA 2), imperfect communion with the Church (UR 3) or just being men of goodwill (GS 22).- Lionel Andrades

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https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/salvation-and-the-church

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/04/two-versions-of-feeneyism-wikipedia.html