Sunday, October 3, 2021
Can Joe Sixpack be a Catholic when he interprets the Creeds, Catechisms, EENS and Vatican Council II with a False Premise to create a rupture with the teachings of the Apostles and Church Fathers, the Early Catholics ?
CHARACTERISTICS OF THE TRUE CHURCH, PART III
by Joe Sixpack — The Every Catholic Guy • ChurchMilitant.com • October 1, 2021
Catholic and Apostolic
Part III of a series. Read Part II.
Last week, we made it halfway through the four marks of the Catholic Church — the marks that reflect Her Founder is Jesus Christ, God Himself. Now we'll finish with the final two marks: (1) "catholic" and (2) "apostolic."
Lionel: I have e-mailed and
informed Joe Sixpack and mentioned that the Church is not one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic
when he and Church Militant TV use a the false premise to interpret Vatican
Council II (LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, GS 22 etc).
Those who use the False Premise have a
Church which is not ecclesiocentric.
Those who use a Rational Premise have a
Church which is ecclesiocentric.
So the Church of Joe Sixpack and CMTV is
not the Apostolic Church which was originally ecclesiocentric.
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Catholicity
Catholic means "universal." That is to say, the Church is for all men of all times in all places. Because our Church alone is universal in time, doctrine and extent, she has existed in perfect continuity from the time of Christ and will last until His Second Coming. She alone teaches all His gospel while administering all His divine means of salvation. She is not confined to any particular region or nation but is widespread among all the nations of the world. The word catholic doesn't denote a quality. One can't be Anglo or liberal catholic; one cannot be more or less catholic. One is either catholic or not.
Lionel: Can Joe
be a Catholic when he interprets the Creeds, Catechisms, EENS and Vatican
Council II with a False Premise to create a rupture with the teachings of the
Apostles and Church Fathers, the Early Catholics ?
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Eastern Orthodoxy isn't catholic in terms of time, as they've existed only since the 11th century with the Great Schism. The attribute "catholic" doesn't apply to Protestant sects because they date from the 16th (Lutherans and Anglicans), 17th (Baptists), 18th (Methodists) or the 19th centuries (Disciples of Christ/Church of Christ). These sects aren't catholic in faith because they've broken away from the center of unity — the Holy See of the Catholic Church — and deny many of Christ's laws and doctrines. They're not catholic in extent, as, from the beginning of their secession, they've identified themselves with some particular nation — Germany, Scandinavian countries, England, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Greece, et cetera.
Mere profession of a creed doesn't render one catholic (many Christian denominations do indeed use the Apostles' Creed) because the different separatist sects read their own peculiar opinions into it. A smattering of different groups around the world does not a "catholic" church make. Catholicity, embodied by the Catholic Church, implies a divine unity of government, faith and worship.
The early Church Fathers, writing in the first four centuries, frequently announce the catholicity of the Church. They consistently tell us the Church is catholic because she is spread over the entire known world and teaches everywhere "universally and completely all the doctrines which ought to come to men's knowledge" (St. Cyril, Catechesis, 18:23). Verify this for yourself by reading, online or at a good library, what was written by Irenaeus, Origen, Optatus and Augustine.
Lionel. The doctrines all over the world were the same. They said outside the Church there was no salvation. There were no known exceptions. All needed to accept Jesus as the Saviour and live Jesus' teachings in the Catholic Church .This was the Will of God the Fathers. Jesus was the Messaiah promised by God through the Jewish Prophets.
The Catholic Church is catholic in time because, while we can accurately fix the date of every heresy and schism, no one can assign any date to Her origin except the day of Pentecost. The Catholic Church is catholic in extent, transcending any one sect; in fact, she is greater than all of them put together. Mere numbers, of course, are not the essence of catholicity, but the Church's de facto numerical superiority points to Her de jure catholicity — Her universal divine commission to spread the One Faith among all nations.
Lionel: With the
False Premise we do not have the same One Faith of the Church Fathers.With the
Rational Premise there is no rupture between faith and reason and we have the
One Faith of the Church Fathers.
Apostolicity
For an institution to be apostolic, it must be able to trace its roots in unbroken succession back to the original Apostles. In fact, before giving His divine commission to the Apostles, Christ referenced His divine commission from His Father: "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21).
The only Christian institution that can rightly claim an origin free of rupture with the past is the Catholic Church. The European Protestants broke with apostolic succession at the time of Martin Luther's revolt (1517–1520), and the English Protestants (1559) did likewise when King Henry VIII made Thomas Cranmer the first Protestant bishop of Canterbury. Since then, we've seen what amounts to religious entropy.
When early Catholics wished to proffer a most convincing argument for the legitimacy of the Church, they invariably appealed to Her apostolic origin. We find these Christians compiling lists of legitimate bishops, especially with regard to the Apostolic See of Rome.
Lionel: True and
all of them affirmed the dogma extra
ecclesiam nulla salus without changing the doctrine with a False Premise as
was done in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston. It
was then repeated at Vatican Council II.Now there is a doctrinal and
theological break with the Apostles and the Church Fathers.
As early as the second century, we find the Syrian Hegesippus and the Greek Irenaeus (bishop of Lyons) maintaining that the source and standard of the Faith is the apostolic Tradition, handed down in an unbroken succession of bishops. Irenaeus writes:
But since it would be very long in such a volume as this to count up the successions [i.e., series of bishops] in all the churches [called "dioceses" today], we confound those who in any way, whether through self-pleasing or vainglory, or through blindness or evil opinion, gather together otherwise than they ought, by pointing out the tradition arrived from the Apostles of the greatest, most ancient and universally known Church, founded and established by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul, and also the Faith declared to men, which, through the succession of bishops, comes down to our times" (Adversus Haereses, 3:3).
It's true that other churches make a claim to apostolicity, but their claims are always erroneous and sometimes even preposterous. For example, several members of the Church of Christ, when defending their "apostolic" origins, have stated to me their name proves their origin. What? That might work for someone who is incapable of logic and right reason, but most of us find that sort of argument ludicrous.
A book could be written on this topic alone; indeed, many books have been written on the topic of apostolicity. I urge you to study the topic, as the Catholic Church can veritably trace Her roots back to the Apostles and, thus, to Jesus Christ Himself.
Got questions? Address them to Joe@CantankerousCatholic.com.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre used the False Premise to interpret the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance and also Vatican Council ( LG 16 etc) so his interpretation of the First Commandment would be that there is not true worship in only the Catholic Church, since there are exceptions. People are saved in other religions with other gods.So for him the Nicene Creed and Apostles Creed would be changed and also the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX on an ecumenism of return.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre used the False Premise to interpret the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance and also Vatican Council ( LG 16 etc) so his interpretation of the First Commandment would be that there is not true worship in only the Catholic Church, since there are exceptions. People are saved in other religions with other gods.So for him the Nicene Creed and Apostles Creed would be changed and also the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX on an ecumenism of return.All Christians would not need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation- there would be exceptions.Since outside the Chruch there was salvation for him he would reject the Athanasius Creed which says all need Catholic faith for salvation.So theologically he was rejecting Tradition like the popes from Pius XII.
There was a choice before Archbishop Lefebvre. He could choose to
interpret LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc as referring to physically invisible or physically visible cases and his conclusion would be traditional
or non traditional, ecclesiocentric or non ecclesiocentric. He chose the
irrational option like the popes from Paul VI.
At the SSPX center/chapel in Rome they have a room full of books and magazines all interpreting Vatican Council II with the fake premise, the irrational option. They were not aware of the Specific Error in the the Council-text.They blamed the Council and not Archbishop Lefebvre.
I have a choice. I choose to interpretLG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc as referring to physically invisible cases in 2021, So they are not objective examples of salvation outside the Church. They are not practical exceptions to the old ecclesiocentrism of the Catholic Church. The Syllabus of Error, Creeds, Catechisms and extra ecclesiam nulla salus have not changed or become obsolete for me.
Pope Francis interprets Vatican Council II with the false premise in Traditionis Custode. No one corrected him on this point.
Andrea Grillo and 180 signatories in a public Letter criticized the Latin Mass and interpreted Vatican Council II with the false premise. The Una Voce International advertisement in the leftist newspaper in Rome did not correct his mistake.
Vatican Council II will be interpreted with the false premise and not the rational premise at the next Synod, and it will overlooked by all.
Peter Kwasniewksi repeats the public error of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. There has been so much of propaganda on Rorate Caeili and other media supporting liberal theology, and they will continue, even after being informed.Kwasniewski's books and articles are still a lot of straw ( aside from the good things in them).Kwasneiwski interprets Vatican Council II and Magisterial documents with the irrational premise creating liberalism and heresy.It is schism with the past Magisterium of the 13th and 16th century.
Don Pietro Leone and Rorate Caeili ( F.G) are outdated with their irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II which creates schism on Ecumenism, Inter-Religious Dialogue, Religious Liberty, Collegiality, Synodality etc.Their reports on Rorate Caeili are appreciated by the liberals. Since they affirm the Council as a rupture and continuation with Tradition.
They don't know that the Catholic Church has returned to Tradition. Rome has come back to the faith doctrinally and theologically- or rather the Faith has come back to Rome.We now know what causes the hermeneutic of continuity, how to avoid it and how to maintain it.
We have a rational and traditional Church with no break between faith and reason. The Council is dogmatic and supports EENS, an ecumenism of return, a Catholic State, the proclamation of the Social Reign of Christ the King in all politics and the absence of a development of doctrine. The Catholic Church is one, holy, Catholic, Apostolic and ecclesiocentric.
Don Pietro Leone, however good his intentions are and he could be a wonderful person, is part of the old liberal propaganda, that Archbishop Lefebvre fell for, innocently.The Catholic Church has returned to Tradition.
I appreciate the contribution for the Church by Chris Ferrara, Roberto dei Mattei, Fr. Nicholas Gruner and many others, including Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. I too have gained from them but we have to accept that they were/are still using the False Premise which creates heresy and schism and liberalism. -Lionel Andrades
SEPTEMBER 26, 2021
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre interpreted Vatican Council II with the false premise, the right hand side column and he was followed in the error by Michael Davies, Dietrich von Hildebrand, Chris Ferrara,, Roberto dei Matteo, Fr. Nicholas Gruner. The SSPX bishops are still interpreting Magisterial documents with the false premise
SEPTEMBER 24, 2021
Pope Paul VI brought ‘the smoke of Satan’ into the Church when he interpreted Vatican Council II irrationally instead of rationally. He used the false premise instead of the rational option.Pope Francis and Pope Benedict must announce that Pope Paul VI made an objective error.They must correct the mistake
SEPTEMBER 23, 2021
Pope Francis and Pope Benedict could correct the error in Wikipedia and Internet resources and the German theological and catechetical publications
AUGUST 28, 2021
So we proclaim the Faith and return to traditional mission as at the time of St. Ignatius of Loyola, St. Robert Bellarmine and St. Francis Xavier
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/08/so-we-proclaim-faith-and-return-to.html
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SEPTEMBER 26, 2021
The theological paper Christianity and the World Religions of the International Theological Commission was approved by Pope Benedict and Cardinal Luiz Ladaria sj in 1997 during the pontificate of Pope John Paul II : it interprets Vatican Council II with the false premise to create a false rupture with Catholic Tradition
CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS BY THE INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION (1997) APPROVED BY POPE BENEDICT AND CARDINAL LUIZ LADARIA SJ.
INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION
CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS
(1997)
66. In his encyclical Mystici Corporis, Pius XII addresses the question, How are those who attain salvation outside visible communion with the Church related to her? He says that they are oriented to the mystical body of Christ by a yearning and desire of which they are not aware (DS 3821).(Lionel: But this is a reference by Pope Pius XII to hypothetical and invisible cases.This is something obvious.It is common sense.) The opposition of the American Jesuit Leonard Feeney, who insisted on the exclusivist interpretation of the expression extra ecclesiam nulla solus, afforded the occasion for the letter of the Holy Office, dated 8 August ,1949, to the archbishop of Boston, which rejected Feeney s interpretation and clarified the teaching of Pius XII. (So he means hypothetical cases are objective exceptions to Feeneyite EENS.He has used the false premise.) The letter distinguishes between the necessity of belonging to the Church for salvation (necessitas praecepti) and the necessity of the indispensable means of salvation (intrinseca necessitas); in relationship to the latter, the Church is a general help for salvation (DS 3867—69).(O.K,Hypothetically but what has this to do with EENS ? The Letter made an irrational inference too.) In the case of invincible ignorance the implicit desire of belonging to the Church suffices; this desire will always be present when a man aspires to conform his will to that of God (DS 3870).(Again he is referring to an unknown person so why is this mentioned with reference to EENS? Why? Since his new theology is based upon the irrational premise.) But faith, in the sense of Hebrews 11:6, and love are always necessary with intrinsic necessity (DS 3872).
SEPTEMBER 27, 2021
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/09/trending-as-most-read-post-on-this-blog.html
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