Did Pope Francis issue Traditionis Custode by confusing speculative and practical theology in the interpretation of Vatican Council II ? Yes

That was a good program on outside the Church there is no salvation. I was surprised to see it on the JHW show.It was focused on the book of Eric Sammons so it did not touch the subject of Vatican Council II not being in conflict with outside the Church there is no salvation. 

This really is related to Traditionis Custode.Since Pope Francis only permits the Latin and Novus Ordo Mass for those priests, who interpret Vatican Council II with the irrational premise and so reject Tradition.

This point needs to be brought out in future interviews.Could there be a Vatican Council II which is not a rupture with outside the Church there is no salvation? Is there a Magisterial and non Magisterial interpretation of Vatican Council II, a rational and irrational interpretation of Vatican Council II ?

And if there is such a thing then did Pope Francis use the irrational and non Magisterial interpretation of Vatican Council II ?

If there are two interpretations of Vatican Council II, one with the false premise and the other without it, then there are presently two interpretations of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance ? This would mean the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance , visible would be exceptions to EENS and BOD and I.I while invisible would not be exceptions to EENS.Invisible people cannot be practical exceptions to the Athanasius Creed which says all need Catholic faith for salvation.

So we could still have the strict interpretation of EENS with a rational interpretation of Vatican Council II.This is one of two possibilities.

This would suggest that the interpretation of outside the Church no salvation( extra ecclesiam nulla salus) of John Henry Weston and that of Eric Sammons, could also be with the irrational premise.

Brother Andre Marie MICM at the St. Benedict Center, NH in an interview with Timoth Flanders of the MeaningofCatholic.com (see above ) Youtube shows that he understands the different between speculative and practical theology which is being confused here. 

This issue of the confusion between speculative and practical theology is there in the Church when Pope Francis cites Vatican Council II. It could also be the interpretation of Vatican Council II by Sammons and Weston.

Did Pope Francis issue Traditionis Custode by confusing speculative and practical theology in the interpretation of Vatican Council II ? Yes.-Lionel Andrades

The present restrictions, in Rome, practically, are not there only for the Latin Mass but also for Mass in Italian. I could cite specific examples when conservative Catholic priests were called up when they interpreted the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance without the common false premise, which is politically approved.

 What are their arguments for questioning Benedict XVI’s document?

They are laid out clearly in the accompanying letter. They can also be found on the blog of Andrea Grillo, a lay professor of liturgy at St. Anselm's who has been extremely hostile to Summorum Pontificum. His idea, taken up by the Pope and the crafters of the recent motu proprio, is that the traditional Mass represents a state of doctrine prior to Vatican II while the new Mass represents the doctrine of Vatican II - something we all already knew. Therefore, it was no longer necessary for the traditional Mass to be a right, but only a tolerance, and even then a tolerance only granted to faithful and priests to help them gradually transition to the new Mass.(Emphasis added )

So the main reason is doctrinal?

Yes, and it is very important to say this and to be aware of it because, paradoxically, this is all very providential. It is of course very painful. It will hinder the diffusion of the traditional Mass. It will start new persecutions. But, on the other hand, it puts the finger on what hurts, namely the doctrinal status of Vatican II, which has never been settled.(Emphasis added )

So, the bottom line is that this hatred of the traditional Mass has a doctrinal basis?

Absolutely. It is the hatred of the Tridentine ecclesiology, of all that this Mass represents from the point of view of Eucharistic doctrine as well as the doctrine of the Church.- Italian Bishops and Cardinals were the origin and moving force behind Traditionis Custodes (an Interview with Fr. Claude Barthe) (Emphasis added )

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/07/italian-bishops-and-cardinals-were.html#more

 His idea, taken up by the Pope and the crafters of the recent motu proprio, is that the traditional Mass represents a state of doctrine prior to Vatican II while the new Mass represents the doctrine of Vatican II - something we all already knew. 

Lionel 

There is a misunderstanding. The liturgy is not responsible for the Tridentine ecclesiology. Since even at the Novus Ordo Mass we can interpret Vatican Council II without confusing LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, etc as referring to physically visible cases instead of physically invisible cases. If it is the latter then there are no  practical exceptions in 1965-2021 to the past Tridentine exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church.

So the present restrictions, in Rome, practically, are not there only for the Latin Mass but also for Mass in Italian. I could cite specific examples when conservative Catholic priests were called up when they interpreted the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance without the common false premise, which is politically approved.-Lionel Andrades

Marino Restrepo was shown Hell by an angel and the place he would go to in Hell if he died that day

(Time on video 23:40)   Marino Restrepo

was shown Hell by an angel and the place

he would go to there would die that 

day.Hell is deep.- L.A

In my parish the police decide who should do the Readings in the church at Mass. The priest does the Gospel Reading at Mass in Italian and lay people the First and Second Reading : they also decide to whom the sign of peace should be extended

In my parish the police decide who should do the Radings in the church. The priest does the Gospel Reading at Mass in Italian and lay people the First and Second Reading.

Often when there are non Christians present, they are invited up to do the Readings.

This is also the policy at the nearby church San Giuseppe all Aurelio, Cornelia, managed by the Oblates of St. Joseph. A section of the church has been given to the Orthodox Church, for their religious services on Sundays.At every Mass a police man is present, who is a non Christian, and he is armed.

The police decide at the church Santa Maria di Nazareth, Casalotti, Boccea, to whom the sign of the peace is to be extended and to who it is not to be given.The non Christian police also go up to receive the Eucharist at Mass and they are given the Eucharist.

Surreal? This is normal at Mass in Italian even in central Rome.-Lionel Andrades

The red is not an exception to the blue for me but for Pope Benedict and Pope Francis the red is an exception to the blue.They confuse what is invisible as being visible: Pope Francis only permits the Mass to be offered by those priests who interpret the Council not with the rational option but the false premise.It still is, the red is an exception to the blue

 

When you read Vatican Council II know that the red passages ( which mention hypothetical cases of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance) are not exceptions to the blue passages ( which are orthodox and in harmony with the Athanasius Creed, EENS and Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX). The red is not an exception to the blue for me but for Pope Benedict and Pope Francis the red is an exception to the blue.They confuse what is invisible as being visible.This is a false premise.Then they infer that there are exceptions for Tradition.This is a false inference.So their conclusion is non traditional, heretical and schismatic.It’s official and they expect all Catholics to follow them.It is politically approved by the Left.

It was the same in the Fr. Leonard Feeney case.Pope Pius XII after World War II and the creation of Israel, allowed the world to think that unknown cases of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance were known and practical exceptions to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So the Athanasius Creed was contradicted and made obsolete.The SSPX keeps referring to Pope Pius XII as ‘ a holy pope’.

Archbishop Lefebvre was silent on the Fr. Feeney case. He interpreted BOD and I.I like Pope Pius XII.

Then he interpreted BOD (LG 14) and I.I(LG 16) like Pope Paul VI and neither of the two of them used the rational premise.A false premise produces a non traditional conclusion, obviously.

Then at the time of Pope John Paul II with Cardinal Ratzinger,Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF),  Archbishop Lefebvre interpreted Vatican Council II with the same false premise, like the pope and the CDF. They did not correct the error.This was the new doctrine of the faith for Cardinal Ratzinger. Instead they excommunicated him. He was correct. Vatican Council II interpreted with the false premise, is heretical and schismatic.But they continued with the false interpretation of the Council instead of the rational option.

Now Pope Francis only permits the Mass to be offered by those priests who interpret the Council not with the rational option but the false premise.It still is, the red is an exception to the blue.-Lionel Andrades

 

  

So the books by Roberto dei Mattei, Paulo Pasqualucci, Cristina Siccardi and others sold at the SSPX chapel are also obsolete.They assume the red is an exception to the blue and so misinterpret the Council.

They were correct in their conclusion that the Church was  a rupture with Tradition.

But they were not aware of their Cushingite interpretation of the Council which causes the break with Tradition. They also did not interpret Vatican Council II, with Feeneyism, to affirm the past ecclesiology, an ecumenism of return and Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

There are no physical bodies  of non Catholics saved without faith and baptism, in Newton's time and space. To assume there are such cases and then make a new theology based upon this irrationality, is not Catholic Tradition.Yet this was done by the traditionalists too after they accepted the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.

This is the new theology of the traditionalists and liberals, the former reject the conclusion and the latter accept it. Neither of the two interpret the Council without the irrationality and accept the traditional conclusion.
-Lionel Andrades

• Red being an exception to the blue -Vatican Documents (1)
• Red is an exception to the blue-Bologna School/ Fr.John Zuhlsdorf (4)
• Red is not an exception to the blue - Proclamation (2)
• Red is not an exception to the blue - profances Holy Mass (1)
• Red is not an exception to the blue :CCC 846-848 (4)
• Red not an exception to blue mapping (1)

• Dominus Iesus interpreted according to the Left (1)
• Dominus Iesus is Cushingite (1)
• Dominus Iesus the red is not an exception to the blue (4)
• Dominus Iesus the red is not an exception to the blue on the Internet (1)

FEBRUARY 9, 2019

The red is not an exception to the blue' : new extraordinary understanding of Vatican Council II