Comment from The Vortex — The Church is Necessary for Heaven - 1

John Stone4 days ago (edited)

How did the thief on the cross get to heaven without the church? Didn't Jesus say, "I am the way"? How is the church the way to heaven?

Lionel : The dogma EENS says all need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation. This is also the message in Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7. It says all need faith and baptism for salvation. Ad Gentes 7 is cited in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846- Outside the Church No Salvation).We do not and cannot know of any one in 2019 who will be saved outside the Church.

There is no known Dismas or Good Thief known today. If someone is saved outside the Church it would only be

known to God. Catholic Faith and the baptism of water are the ordinary means of salvation, the only means of salvation for us humans. We cannot know of an extraordinary means.

of salvation.

Jesus said that he is the way and he also said that the baptism of water is necessary for salvation (John 3:5). He also said that those who do not believe in Him would be

condemned (Mark 16:16).The baptism of water was given in a community. One had to be a member of the community, the Early Church for salvation.-Lionel Andrades

Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 5

Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 5

JL D3 days ago

Michael, do you accept article 1258 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Feeneyites reject it as heretical.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

Lionel: He does not have to reject it.CCC 1258 refers to hypothetical cases known only to God.They are not exceptions to EENS. The baptism of blood, like the desire for baptism brings about the fruits of baptism without being a Sacrament. If someone is saved as such wonderful. However we do not know of any case in 2019. So CCC 1258, like CCC 847-848 is compatible with the strict interpretation of outside the Church there is no salvation.

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Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 4

Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son

JL D3 days ago

Michael, do you back the Feeneyites rejection of article 17 of the chapter on baptism of St Pius X's catechism ? Q. Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way? A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire.

Lionel: The Feeneyites do not reject Article 17 since it refers to a hypothetical case.You must assume that this is a know person saved as such.

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C Trone3 days ago

Deana Burnham no salvation outside the church is a dogma of the Catholic faith that is unmistakable, whether by baptism of blood or desire that would make you a member of the Catholic Church but unless you were to die in either of these states then you are not considered Catholic. The Athanasian Creed clearly states that you need to be Catholic, believing in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation in order to be saved. This is nothing new as St. Athanasius was no more than 3 generations separated from Jesus himself

Lionel : Agreed. Nothing new.

-Lionel Andrades

 APRIL 15, 2019

Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 3 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/04/comments-from-vortex-heretic-or-loyal_43.html

The Vortex — Attacking the Good Guys

Excommunication of Fr. Leonard Feeney was false :no known exceptons to EENS

The excommunication of Fr. Leonard Feeney was false since the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and invincible ignorance(I.I), never ever were exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).So he was not obliged to go to Rome to defend himself.

We humans cannot meet or see any one saved with BOD, BOB and I.I outside the Church.So this is a non issue.

We cannot administer the baptism of desire to anyone. So it is not a Sacrament like the Baptism of water.

No one saw St.Emerentiana in Heaven without the baptism of water and we do not know any one in 2019 who will die like Dismas the Good Thief.St. Ambrose speculated  and hoped that his friend the Emperor Valentinian was in Heaven, without the baptism of water.He could not personally know.

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre could only hope and beleive that a young catechist who sought the baptism of water and died before receiving it, would be in Heaven.Personally he could not judge.

St. Francis Xavier and the saints  tell us God sent people who died without the baptism of water, back to earth, only to be baptised with water.

No one today can name any exception to EENS.

 

Cardinal Raymond Burke , for example, also does not know of any person saved with BOD,BOB and I.I outside the Church, during his life time.So he does not know of any exception to Feeneyite EENS.I am sure he would confirm this if asked.

So the excommunication of Fr. Leonard Feeney was false.It was a leftist and political excommunication.

Similarly Archbishop Lefebvre was correct about Vatican Council II ( Cushingite).It is a rupture with Tradition.It is heretical.

With a false premise, LG 8 etc are projected as known exceptins to EENS. So he should not have been excommunicated for rejecting Vatican Council II ( Cushingite).

It was Cardinal Ratzinger, the Prefect of the CDF who made a mistake.He did not affirm Vatican Council II( Feeneyite).Neither did he announce that the Council could be interpreted without the mistake.

Brother Andre Marie MICM, Prior, St. Benedict Center, N.H in his correspondence with the CDF, which can be read on line, has said that there are no personally known cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance.He understands.

The SSPX today needs to do the same with reference to Vatican Council II and EENS. Perhaps they can also get a statement on this issue, from Cardinal Raymond Burke.-Lionel Andrades

A Catholic can be a Feeneyite and also affirm CCC 847-848 : CDF Secretaries error can be read on line

It needs to be clarified that when the Letter of the Holy Office 1939(LOHO) states ,'Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member', it means this only in a hypothetical and speculative sense.It can only be understood in a hypothetical sense. It is a possibility known only to God.
Since literally there are no such exceptions. So practically every one needs to enter the Catholic Church for salvation.

So when the Secretaries of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) interpreted CCC 847-848 as referring to literal exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS), they made a factual mistake. Their correspondence can be read on line.

Neither does CCC 847-848 contradict CCC 846 ( Outside the Church No Salvation).So a Catholic can be a Feeneyite and also affirm CCC 847-848.

-Lionel Andrades

The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 has a mistake : it has to be re-interpreted

The first part of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO)  supports extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).The second part wrongly assumes there are personally known cases of non Catholics saved with the  baptism of desire, baptism of blood(BOB) and invincible ignorance (I.I) outside the Catholic Church.

So BOD, BOB and I.I are projected by LOHO as being exceptions to Feeneyite EENS.

LOHO was referenced at Vatican Council II by the liberal ecclesiastics even though it had an objective mistake.It violated the Principle of Non Contradiction when it assumed non Catholics saved in Heaven were also visible on earth,to be exceptions to EENS.They were at two places at the same time.

We now know that there are no known cases of BOD, BOB and I.I for them to be relevant or exceptions to EENS, as it was interpreted over the centuries.

So this is human error, a factual mistake. It cannot be magisterial  since the Holy Spirit cannot make an objective mistake.

Cardinal Ratzinger referenced LOHO in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and approved the New Theology based upon the confusion between what is invisible and visible, implicit and explicit.

His friend Fr.Karl Rahner sj placed LOHO with the error in the Denzinger.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF), the then Holy Office in 1949, confused what cannot be seen as being seeing in LOHO.This error was repeated by the Prefect of the CDF, Cardinal Ladaria on March 1,2018.At the Placquet Press Conference when asked a question he mentioned Lumen Gentium 8 ( elements of sanctification and truth in other religions) as being exceptions to EENS.He also assumed that there were known non Catholics saved outside the Church,which would be unknown to him, where the Catholic Church subsists( LG 8).

Based upon this same confusion, a philosophical error, an empirical error, in March 2016(Avvenire) , Pope Benedict interpreted Vatican Council II ( Cushingite) as being a rupture with 16th century EENS.Since unknown cases of BOD(LG 14), I.I ( LG 16) etc, were objective examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church, for him.

LOHO states
Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member-Letter of the Holy Office 1949.

This contradicts the dogma EENS by assuming hypothetical cases of BOD, BOB and I.I are objective examples of non Catholics saved outside the Church without faith and baptism (AG 7).

The LOHO has to be re-interpreted with the first part supporting Feeneyite EENS and the second part, not contradicting the first part.

-Lionel Andrades 

April 16, 2019

Feeneyites do not reject the Baptism of Desire    https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/04/feeneyites-do-not-reject-batptism-of.html

 

April 15, 2019

Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 1 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/04/comments-from-vortex-heretic-or-loyal.html

 April 15, 2019

Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 2 

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/04/comments-from-vortex-heretic-or-loyal_15.html 

 

April 15, 2019

Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 3 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/04/comments-from-vortex-heretic-or-loyal_43.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

Feeneyites do not reject the Baptism of Desire

Feeneyites do not reject the baptism of desire(BOD) and being saved in invincible ignorance (I.I). They know that there are no literal cases of BOD, I.I and being saved with the baptism of blood(BOB), without the baptism of water and Catholic faith.So they do not accept BOD, BOB and I.I as exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).They never were exceptions even for the popes and saints over the centuries.

For them BOD, BOB and I.I are accepted as only hypothetical cases.They can only hypothetical for us human beings.Invisible people are not practical exceptions to EENS.

Cushingites, those who assume hypothetical cases are objective examples of salvation in 2019, assume BOD, BOB and I.I are exceptions to EENS.This is a common error in the interpretation of magisterial documents.It is a mistake. We cannot meet any one saved with BOD, BOB and I.I. So the understanding of Vatican Council, the Creeds and Catechism and EENS changes with this irrationality. There is a rupture with Tradition created by Cushingites.The SSPX, traditionalists and liberals are  Cushingites. -Lionel Andrades

April 15, 2019

Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 1 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/04/comments-from-vortex-heretic-or-loyal.html

 April 15, 2019

Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 2 

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/04/comments-from-vortex-heretic-or-loyal_15.html 

 

April 15, 2019

Comments from The Vortex — Heretic or Loyal Son - 3 

 https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2019/04/comments-from-vortex-heretic-or-loyal_43.html

 

 

 

 

The Vortex — The Church is Necessary for Heaven

Notre Dame Cathedral Burns in Paris

by David Nussman  •  ChurchMilitant.com  •  April 15, 2019    

Historic church burns, steeple and roof collapse; cause of fire unknown

UPDATE, 4/15/2019: French reporter Nicolas Delesalle has tweeted that the Crown of Thorns, the Sacred Hosts and all the works of art at the cathedral have been saved.

PARIS (ChurchMilitant.com) - The Cathedral of Notre Dame is engulfed in flames, and the spire and roof have now collapsed.
A fire broke out at the world-famous cathedral sometime before 7 p.m. local time Monday evening. The roof and spire were consumed in flames, and the burning spire collapsed around 8 p.m. French authorities said the entire wooden frame of the cathedral is burning as well.
Various videos on social media show the flames engulfing the cathedral's high roof and tall spire. Videos also show vast pillars of smoke billowing up, tainting the Paris skyline.
Continued
 https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/breaking-notre-dame-cathedral-burns-in-paris

Trending Repost : Bishop Fellay does not realize that he is confused between Feeneyism and Cushingism

April 28, 2017

Bishop Fellay does not realize that he is confused between Feeneyism and Cushingism

The dogma “Outside the Church there is no salvation” has been changed surreptitiously by confused ideas wrote Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X(SSPX).1 He does not realize that it is he, who is confused between Cushingism and Feeneyism in the interpretation of the dogma. That same confusion he extends to Vatican Council II.He then makes the same error in the interpretation of the Catechism of Pope Pius X and the Catechism of the Catholic Church(1995).

Feeneyism: It is the old theology and philosophical reaoning which says there are no known exceptions past or present, to the dogma EENS.There are no explicit cases to contradict the traditional interpretation of EENS.

Cushingism: It is the new theology and philosophical reasoning, which assumes there are known exceptions, past and present, to the dogma EENS, on the need for all to formally enter the Church.It assumes that the baptism of desire etc are not hypothetical but objectively known.In principle hypothetical cases are objective in the present times.

 

 So when he interprets invincible ignorance in the Catechism of Pope Pius X he assumes it refers to a visible case and so is an exception to outside the Church no salvation ( Feeneyite).

When I interpret invincible ignorance for example, in the Catechism of Pope Pius X it refers to an invisible case.

For Father Pier Paulo Petrucci, Superior, SSPX, Italy the baptism of desire refers to a visible case. So Vatican Council II has a rupture with the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation( Feeneyite).He is a Cushingite like Bishop Bernard Fellay.

For me Lionel, the baptism of desire and blood with or without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church refers to a physically invisible case. So it cannot be relevant or an exception to the dogma EENS, as it was known to the 16th century missionaries.2 

Bishop Bernard Fellay could also clarify that I Lionel Andrades interpret Vatican Council II without an irrational premise and so my conclusion is different from his and the SSPX bishops and priests.It is the same with the dogma EENS.

 This is Vatican Council II Feeneyite for me with these diagrams.

-Lionel Andrades

1.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/04/the-dogma-outside-church-there-is-no.html

2.

January 12, 2016

If the SSPX bishops and Fr.Pierpaulo Petrucci would admit that the baptism of desire refers to invisible cases in 2016, the entire interpretation of Vatican Council changes : error in the article

Fr. Pier Paolo Petrucci, Superior General,SSPX ,Italy makes the familiar SSPX error http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/01/fr-pier-paolo-petrucci-superior.html

JULY 20, 2015

No response from Fraternita Sacerdotale San Pio X (SSPX Italy) : doctrinal mess http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/07/no-response-from-fraternita-sacerdotale.html

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October 18, 2012

FATHER NIKLAUS PFLUGER IN FIRST CLASS HERESY ?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/10/father-niklaus-pfluger-in-first-class.html

 

 

October 19, 2012

RAMPANT HERESY IN THE SSPX

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/10/rampant-heresy-in-sspx.html

SSPX DISTRICT ITALY CONFERENCE ON VATICAN COUNCIL II TO USE THE FALSE PREMISE

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/10/sspc-district-italy-conference-


October 17, 2012

Will Bishop Bernard Fellay give up Church teachings to protect the SSPX?

Vatican Council II can be accepted by the SSPX in accord with the dogma extra eccleesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors.This will be a Vatican Council without  the visible dead theory. It will be the Jewish Left who will oppose this interpretation of Vatican Council. Vatican Council II would be anti Semitic.

At Akita,  Our Lady told the seer that there will come a time when bishops will be against bishops and cardinals against cardinals. At Fatima she said the Faith will be lost (except in Portugal). Rome will lose the Faith, she said, at La Salle.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/10/will-bishop-bernard-fellay-give-up.html

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2017/04/bishop-fellay-does-not-realize-that-he.html

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