Thursday, October 1, 2020

Cardinals and bishops who affirm Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) and not Vatican Council II( Cushingite) would be considered rational and traditional but also politically incorrect with the Left

 Question : What is EENS?

Answer :

EENS = extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

It is Latin for outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation and there are no known exceptions.
Now there is EENS Feeneyite and EENS Cushingite.
EENS Cushingite says outside the Church there is no salvation but there are also known exceptions.This is contradictory but it is the common interpretation in the Church.
EENS Feeneyite is the traditional view held by the popes and saints. It was defined by three Church Councils in the extra ordinary Magisterium.
EENS Cushingite emerged with the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston relative to the Jesuit priest Fr. Leonard Feeney.
The Council Fathers at Vatican Council II were influenced by the Letter of the Holy Office(LOHO) and attempted to get rid of EENS Feeneyite at the Council.
So like LOHO they interpreted hypothetical cases as being objective examples of salvation outside the Catholic Church and so they inferred that there were known exceptions to EENS Feeneyite. This was irrational .Their premise was wrong. But it was accepted at Vatican Council II.
Now it is realised that if we do not use the false premise, if we do not mix up what is invisible as being invisible then LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc do not contradict EENS Feeneyite. 
So with Vatican Council II interpreted rationally we are back to EENS as it was known to the Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church and there is no schism with the popes of the past. There is no theological division in the Church.
This now is a problem for the present two popes and the liberals since they cannot quote Vatican Council II any more by using the false premise.
It means there is no theological basis for the New Theology, New Ecumenism, New Ecclesiology and New Evangelisation which were based upon there being salvation outside the Church and objective exceptions to EENS. 
It also means that the cardinals and bishops who affirm Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) and not Vatican Council II( Cushingite) would be considered rational and traditional but also politically incorrect with the Left.-Lionel Andrades

Dave Armstrong and my interpretation of Vatican Council II is different : he uses the false premise

 

  1. Comments from the blog The Meaning of Catholic the blog of Timothy S. Flanders

    • Lionel Andrades says

      This statement is factually untrue, and it is simple to prove it: by recourse to the Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis redintegratio) and its footnotes, which are comprised of copious references to Holy Scripture (which may be considered “prior magisterium”: being inspired revelation) in 35 out of 42 of the notes. The other seven make reference to previous magisterial conciliar documents (five, referring to five councils: Florence being cited three times) or Church fathers (two: St. Augustine and St. John Chrysostom). Here are the ones referring to prior councils:…- Dave Amstrong

      Lionel: The Decree on Ecumenism(UR) refers to hypothetical cases only for me. So UR no where contradicts the traditional ecumenism of return.
      Neither does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus with no known exceptions, as it was known to the Church Fathers or the missionaries in the 16th century.
      So we have two interpretations of UR , Dave and mine.
      Similarly we have two interpretations one in which LG 8, LG 14 and LG 16 are exceptions to EENS and the other, mine, in which they are not exceptions.
      So our premise and inference are dfferent when interpreting Vatican Council II.
      -Lionel Andrades

      • Lionel Andrades says

        If by that, you mean that the documents contain literal heresy that binds the faithful, I say no: it’s not possible (and this follows from Vatican I, Pastor aeternus, since the ecumenical council must be ratified by the pope, who cannot fall into such error). -Dave Armstrong

        The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 (LOHO) to the Archbishop of Boston made an objective mistake when it assumed hypothetical and invisible cases of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance were objective examples of salvation and so exceptions to Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).
        LOHO says that one does not always need to be a member of the Catholic Church for salvation. This is heresy.

        The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949
        ‘Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member’ because there are objective exceptions which are known to us ?
        The same mistake is made in Vatican Council II which cites LOHO.
        .Lumen Gentium 16 is projected as an exception to EENS. This is an error. This cannot be the work of the Holy Spirit. This cannot be Magisterial.
        I interpret LG 16 as being implicit and not explicit, invisible and not visible and so there is no rupture with EENS etc. But the Council Fathers ( Cushing, Rahner, Ratzinger etc) made a mistake in 1965.
        In principle they assumed unknown cases are known and then they projected them as rupture with traditional exclusive salvation.
        So Redemptoris Missio is Christocentric and not ecclesiocentric. This is human error and cannot be attributed to the Holy Spirit.
        LOHO was teaching heresy.
        -Lionel Andrades


  2. Lionel Andrades says

    SEPTEMBER 13, 2020
    With the false premise we create a false church within the Catholic Church

    When we interpret Vatican Council II with the false premise we create a false church within the Catholic Church.

    When we accept the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which interprets EENS with a false premise we create a false church within the Catholic Church.

    When we interpret the Nicene Creed with the baptism of the desire, baptism of blood and invincible ignorance being objective cases of non Catholics saved outside the Church without the baptism of water( this is a false premise), we create a false church within the Catholic Church.

    When we interpret CCC 946 as saying all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church as if we know of exceptions to EENS; this is false premise, and so we create a false church within the Catholic Church.-Lionel Andrades

  3. Lionel Andrades says

    SEPTEMBER 13, 2020
    We have to re-read Vatican Council II knowing that the Council is referring to hypothetical cases only. LG 8, LG 14 ( baptism of desire), LG 16 (invincible ignorance), UR 3, NA 2, GS 22( people saved with good will ) etc are always only hypothetical.

    We cannot see St. Emerentiana in Heaven without the baptism of water. We cannot meet or see someone saved without faith and the baptism of water (Ad Gentes 7). So we have to re-read Vatican Council II knowing that the Council is referring to hypothetical cases only. It is not referring to known non Catholics saved outside the Church.This would be irrational. Though this was the false reasoning of the Council Fathers ( Cushing, Rahner, Ratzinger etc).

    LG 8, LG 14 ( baptism of desire), LG 16 (invincible ignorance), UR 3, NA 2, GS 22( people saved with good will ) etc are always only hypothetical. They are not objective exceptions to Tradition( EENS, Syllabus etc).-Lionel Andrades

  4. Lionel Andrades says

    SEPTEMBER 13, 2020
    The interpretation of Vatican Council II by Pope Paul VI was not Magisterial when he contradicted John 3:5 and Mark 16:16 and the past Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

    Pope Paul VI interpreted Vatican Council II with a false premise and inference. In this way he contradicted the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS). EENS was defined by three Church Councils in the Extraordinary Form. So did he discard the dogma on the infallibility of the pope ex cathedra, in Vatican Council I ?

    His interpretation of the Council was not magisterial when the contradicted John 3:5 and Mark 16:16 and the past Magisterium of the Catholic Church. -Lionel Andrades

    https://meaningofcatholic.com/2020/08/24/conservative-trad-dialogue-reply-to-dave-armstrong/  https://www.facebook.com/dave.armstrong.798


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There is no more a traditional Oath of Office or Profession of Faith : Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano took the false Oath of Office as a bishop and made a false Profession of Faith routinely, in ignorance. He changed the meaning of the Creeds and other Magisterial documents

 There is no more a traditional Oath of Office or Profession of Faith. Since with the false premise, the Athanasius Creed , the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS) and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX are rejected and the interpretations of the Catechisms are changed.

When the bishop uses a false premise to interpret the Decree on Ecumenism ( Unitatis Redintigratio) in Vatican Council II, it is politically correct.However it is not magisterial.It is human error.

The Holy Spirit cannot make an objective mistake.

The Decree on  Ecumenism (UR) does not contradict an ecumenism of return when it is interpreted rationally i.e it is seen as hypothetical and speculative only.

Now politically and irrationally the bishop has to affirm heresy( rejection of EENS and Athanasius Creed etc) and schism ( rupture with past popes and Magisterium on Creeds, EENS etc) and this is approved by ecclesiastical Masonry.It is all official and open.

The Decree on Ecumenism for example, interpreted irrationally creates heresy and schism which is now accepted unknowingly by Catholics in general, who recite a Profession of Faith at Holy Mass.

Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano took the false Oath of Office as a bishop and made a false Profession of Faith routinely, in ignorance. He changed the meaning of the Creeds and other Magisterial documents..-Lionel Andrades