Friday, February 10, 2023

Rorate Caeili (web blog) is still misleading Catholics.

 

Rorate Caeili will not say that Vatican Council II interpreted with LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc being hypothetical only - is not a break with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors.

It is Tradition which is not affirmed by Rorate Caeili and the SSPX. They continue to  interpret the Council with the Irrational Premise ( invisible cases of LG 8,14 and 16 etc) are visible.

 There are numerous obsolete reports/articles and books written with Vatican Council II interpreted with the Irrational Premise.This report by Don Leone is another outdated one.

We now know that we can interpret the Council with LG 8,14 and 16 not being a practical exception for the past ecclesiocentrism of the Church.

The exclusivist ecclesiology of the past is not contradicted by a theoretical and hypothetical LG 8,14 and 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc.But priests, liberals and traditionalists are not allowed to interpret Vatican Council II rationally. Since then there will be no break with Tradition. They will be affirming Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The Left and the Vatican could suspend them, transfer them or laicize them.

I know of priests who affirmed the strict interpretation of EENS and once I mentioned it on this blog they feared it would be the end for them as priests. So they reneged on the faith.

However the issue now is Vatican Council II. The primary issue is not EENS.

Rorate Caeili, the SSPX and the Lefebvrists in general are interpreting the Council irrationally to avoid persecution. They are misleading Catholics. They preserve their interests, their careers, the reputation of their websites etc.This is unethical and dishonest. It is political.They need to interpret the Council irrationally even when they know that a rational option is possible. -Lionel Andrades

 

 

 

 

'The Council and The Eclipse’ of God by Don Pietro Leone: CHAPTER 11 - The Effects of Council Teaching (part 3) regarding: The Holy Mass, Man, Anti-Realist Subjectivism, The Council’s Subjectivism

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2023/02/the-council-and-eclipse-of-god-by-don.html

 

 

This distinction between radical-traditionalist Catholic and the rank and file Catholic in the main line Church, with Mass in the vernacular, has ended.

 

The FBI defines radical-traditionalist Catholics as people who

are typically characterized by the rejection of the Second Vatican Council "Vatican II" as a valid church council; disdain for most of the popes elected since Vatican II, particularly Pope Francis and Pope John Paul II; and frequent adherence to anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant, anti-LGBTQ, and white supremacist ideology.

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/cm-responds-to-fbi-memo

This distinction between radical-traditionalist Catholic and the rank and file Catholic in the main line Church, with Mass in the vernacular, has ended.It is now known that Vatican Council II can be interpreted with a Rational Premise instead of the present common Irrational Premise. It is only with the Fake Premise that there is a  break with Tradition.

So in future the main line Catholic Church, which has Holy Mass in the vernacular will only be able to interpret Vatican Council II rationally. This would be the ethical thing to do.So the FBI would have to classify and persecute the whole Church and not just those who go for the Latin Mass.

The understanding of the main line Church today and in the future, would be the same as those who went for the Latin Mass in the 16th century. 

We now have a discovery which was not known in 1965.

We now know how the hermeneutic of continuity can always be created with Vatican Council II. We also know precisely what produces the break with Tradition. So we can avoid it.

 When Vatican Council II is interpreted with LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, Gs 22 etc referring to only theoretical and speculative cases and not actual, known people in the present times, then there are no objective examples of salvation mentioned in Vatican Council II. There are no practical exceptions for the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX.- Lionel Andrades

The sedevacantists are correct about Vatican Council II. The Council was interpreted irrationally and not rationally. A false premise and inference was chosen instead of the rational option : Vatican Council II interpreted with a Fake Premise is unethical and political and Michael Voris has to choose it

 

There are different "camps" of sedevacantists, and while there are some divisions among them, there is broad agreement that Vatican II was bad and that there has not been a valid pope since the death of Pius XII in 1958. And yeah, you heard that right — not a valid pope in 65 years and counting. - Michael Voris

https://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/vort-mel-gibsons-priests

The sedevacantists are correct about Vatican Council II. The Council was interpreted irrationally and not rationally. A false premise and inference was chosen instead of the rational option. The Council is liberal when the false premise is chosen by the popes and cardinals.Without the false premise the Council supports Tradition as held by the father of Mel Gibson.

Vatican Council II interpreted with a Fake Premise is unethical and political and Michael Voris has to choose it.- Lionel Andrades

Minim priests and religious sisters at the basilica of San Andrea delle Fratte Rome agree with me


The Minim priests and religious sisters of St.Francis Paola agree with me. They say outside the Church there is no salvation based upon the Catechism of the Catholic Church(845,846), Vatican Council II(LG 14, AG 7) and the Bible ( John 3:5, Mark 16:16).The Society of St. Pius X  says the same. It is based upon the Catechism of Pope Pius X and Trent. This is not contradicted by  Vatican Council II interpreted rationally i.e. LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc, refer to hypothetical and speculative cases only. They are not objective examples of salvation in the present times.They are not  exceptions for the Athanasius Creed and the Syllabus of Errors of Pius X.

Image result for Photo outside the Church there is no salvation


Image result for Photo Jesus without the Church

Image result for Photo outside the Church there is no salvation 
Image result for Photo outside the Church there is no salvation 
Image result for Photo outside the Church there is no salvation 
Image result for Photo outside the Church there is no salvation
Image result for Photo outside the Church there is no salvation
The Bible tells us the Church is the Mystical Body of Jesus. It tells us all who do not believe in Jesus, within the community, the Early Church, in which the baptism of water was necessary, would be damned ( Mark 16:16).

So the Minim  priests who offer Holy Mass in Italian at the basilica of St. Andrea delle Fratte, Rome, affirm the same theology and doctrines of Alphonse Ratisbonne, Fr. Theodore Ratisbonne,St. Maximillian Kolbe, St. Teresa of Lisieux and St. Francis of Paula. They affirm Catholic Tradition and also Vatican Council II interpreted rationally.

The Society of St. Pius X in its General Chapter Statement 1 which was approved by Bishop Bernard Fellay, has affirmed Feeneyite EENS.- Lionel Andrades


1

For this reason it seems opportune that we reaffirm our faith in the Roman Catholic Church, the unique Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, outside of which there is no salvation nor possibility to find the means leading to salvation

https://sspx.org/en/sspx-2012-general-chapter-statement


Traduzione Italiana

Sono d'accordo con me i Sacerdoti e le Suore Minimi della basilica di San Andrea delle Fratte a Roma

Sono d'accordo con me i sacerdoti minimi e le religiose di San Francesco Paola. Dicono che al di fuori della Chiesa Cattolica non c'è salvezza.Questa e  basata sul Catechismo della Chiesa Cattolica (845,846),  Concilio Vaticano II (LG 14, AG 7) e sulla Bibbia (Giovanni 3:5, Marco 16:16). Lo stesso dice Fraternita Sacerdotale San Pio X(FSSPX). Si basa sul Catechismo di Papa Pio X e Trento. Non è contraddetto dal Concilio Vaticano II interpretato razionalmente cioè LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 ecc, si riferiscono solo a casi ipotetici e speculativi. Non sono esempi oggettivi di salvezza nei tempi presenti. Non fanno eccezione il Credo di Atanasio e il Sillabo degli Errori di Pio X.

Così i sacerdoti Minimi che celebrano la Santa Messa in italiano nella basilica di Sant'Andrea delle Fratte, a Roma, affermano la stessa teologia e dottrina di Alphonse Ratisbonne, p. Teodoro Ratisbonne, St. Massimiliano Kolbe, Santa Teresa di Lisieux e San Francesco di Paula. Affermano la Tradizione Cattolica e anche il Concilio Vaticano II interpretato razionalmente.

La Fraternità San Pio X nella Dichiarazione del Capitolo Generale(2012) 1, approvata dal Vescovo Bernard Fellay, ha affermato Feeneyite EENS.- Lionel Andrades



JANUARY 28, 2023

The Minims, good people, good religious, do not affirm the Athanasius Creed, the Syllabus of Errors and Vatican Council II interpreted rationally

 

At the basilica of Sant Andrea delle Fratte, Rome the Minim priests and religious sisters, of St. Francis di Paula, have been organizing First Communion and Confirmation classes for children of the parish. These religious interpret Vatican Council II irrationally. For them the Red is an exception for the Blue.

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. Therefore those men cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."(17) Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16). - Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE.


 

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism124 and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church…

Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.

 THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE.

 The passage in Red refers to hypothetical and invisible cases in the present times. The passage in Blue are orthodox and support the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The passages in Red do not contradict the passages in Blue.

 In this way they produce a break with the doctrines and theology of the Catholic Church, of the past. This is approved by the police present at the basilica. They represent the political Left and Koranic teachings.

If the Minims affirm Vatican Council II, rational, then they could be saying all need Catholic faith and the baptism of water for salvation (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II).

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7

This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism (124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church.-Lumen Gentium 14

 But they do not say this. Instead they say God is merciful.They do not affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, like Theodore Ratisbonne and St. Maximillian Kolbe, whose statues are there in white near the Altar of the Miracles.

At Mass people who follow the Koran and issue threats based upon their religion are given the Eucharist.

According to Canon Law a Religious Superior, Rector and Parish Priest must be Catholic and must affirm the teachings of the Catholic Church.The Minims, good people, good religious, do not affirm the Athanasius Creed, the Syllabus of Errors and Vatican Council II interpreted rationally.

In Vatican Council II, LG 8, 14 and 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc 1 refer to invisible cases but for them they refer to visible cases. So they then project LG 8 etc as objective examples of salvation outside the Church, in the present times and exceptions for the Syllabus of Errors etc.This is unethical.- Lionel Andrades

 

THESE ARE REFERENCES TO INVISIBE CASES IN 2023. THEY ARE NOT VISIBLE EXAMPLES OF SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. THEY ARE NOT OBJECTIVE EXCEPTIONS FOR THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS, THE ATHANASIUS CREED AND THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS OF POPE PIUS IX.

This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.- Lumen Gentium 8, Vatican Council II

 

Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own. Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

 

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator… Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.- Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II.

 

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation. – Unitatis Redintigratio 3 Vatican Council II

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men– Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II.

All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men,(32) and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.- Gaudium et Specs 22, Vatican Council II


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JANUARY 26, 2023

According to Canon Law, the Parish Priest and Religious Superiors must be Catholic. They must affirm Catholic teachings in public : Sant Andrea delle Fratte, Rome

 

At the basilica of Sant Andrea delle Fratte, Rome, the Minim Fathers and Sisters, do not affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla nulla salus, like Alphonse Ratisbonne and St. Maximilian Kolbe. They also do not interpret Vatican Council II rationally.

According to Canon Law, the Parish Priest and Religious Superiors must be Catholic. They must affirm Catholic teachings in public.- Lionel Andrades

https://www.madonnadelmiracolo.it/


Nella basilica di Sant'Andrea delle Fratte, a Roma, i Padri e le Sorelle Minime, non affermano il dogma extra ecclesiam nulla nulla salus, come Alphonse Ratisbonne e San Massimiliano Kolbe. Inoltre non interpretano razionalmente il Concilio Vaticano II.

 Secondo il Diritto Canonico, il Parroco ei Superiori Religiosi devono essere Cattolici. Devono affermare pubblicamente gli insegnamenti Cattolici.

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/01/according-to-canon-law-parish-priest.html


I Minimi, brave persone, buoni religiosi, non affermano il Credo di Atanasio, il Sillabo degli Errori e il Concilio Vaticano II interpretato razionalmente

Presso la basilica di Sant'Andrea delle Fratte, a Roma, i sacerdoti e le religiose Minimi, di San Francesco di Paola, organizzano corsi di Prima Comunione e Cresima per i bambini della parrocchia. Questi religiosi interpretano il Concilio Vaticano II in modo irrazionale. Per loro il Rosso è un'eccezione per il Blu.


È dunque necessario che tutti si convertano al Cristo conosciuto attraverso la predicazione della Chiesa, ed a lui e alla Chiesa, suo corpo, siano incorporati attraverso il battesimo (39). Cristo stesso infatti, « ribadendo espressamente la necessità della fede e del battesimo (cfr. Mc 16,16; Gv 3,5), ha confermato simultaneamente la necessità della Chiesa, nella quale gli uomini entrano, per così dire, attraverso la porta del battesimo…

 Benché quindi Dio, attraverso vie che lui solo conosce, possa portare gli uomini che senza loro colpa ignorano il Vangelo a quella fede « senza la quale è impossibile piacergli» (41), è tuttavia compito imprescindibile della Chiesa.- Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

 IL ROSSO NON FA ECCEZIONE AL BLU.



14. Il santo Concilio si rivolge quindi prima di tutto ai fedeli cattolici. Esso, basandosi sulla sacra Scrittura e sulla tradizione, insegna che questa Chiesa peregrinante è necessaria alla salvezza. Solo il Cristo, infatti, presente in mezzo a noi nel suo corpo che è la Chiesa, è il mediatore e la via della salvezza; ora egli stesso, inculcando espressamente la necessità della fede e del battesimo (cfr. Gv 3,5), ha nello stesso tempo confermato la necessità della Chiesa, nella quale gli uomini entrano per il battesimo come per una porta…

I catecumeni che per impulso dello Spirito Santo desiderano ed espressamente vogliono essere incorporati alla Chiesa, vengono ad essa congiunti da questo stesso desiderio, e la madre Chiesa li avvolge come già suoi con il proprio amore e con le proprie cure.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.

IL ROSSO NON FA ECCEZIONE PER IL BLU. 

  Il passaggio in Rosso si riferisce a casi ipotetici e invisibili nel presente. I passaggi in Blu sono ortodossi e sostengono il dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. I passaggi in Rosso non contraddicono i passaggi in Blu.


In questo modo producono una rottura con le dottrine e la teologia della Chiesa Cattolica, del passato. Lo approva la polizia presente in basilica. Rappresentano la sinistra politica e gli insegnamenti Koranici.

Se i Minimi affermano il Concilio Vaticano II, in modo razionale, allora potrebbero dire che tutti hanno bisogno della fede cattolica e del battesimo dell'acqua per la salvezza (Ad Gentes 7, Concilio Vaticano II).

Ma non dicono questo. Invece dicono che Dio è misericordioso. Non affermano il dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, come Don Teodoro Ratisbonne e Sant Massimiliano Kolbe, le cui statue sono lì in bianco presso l'Altare dei Miracoli.

Alla Messa le persone che seguono il Corano e lanciano minacce basate sulla loro religione ricevono l'Eucaristia.

Secondo il Diritto Canonico un Superiore Religioso, Rettore e Parroco deve essere Cattolico e deve affermare gli insegnamenti della Chiesa Cattolica. I Minimi, brave persone, buoni religiosi, non affermano il Credo di Atanasio, il Sillabo degli Errori e il Concilio Vaticano II interpretato razionalmente.

Nel Concilio Vaticano II, LG 8, 14 e 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 ecc 1 si riferiscono a casi invisibili ma per loro si riferiscono a casi visibili. Quindi proiettano LG 8 ecc. come esempi oggettivi di salvezza al di fuori della Chiesa, nei tempi presenti ed eccezioni per il Sillabo degli Errori ecc. Questo non è etico.- Lionel Andrades


1.

QUESTI SONO RIFERIMENTI A CASI INVISIBILI NEL 2023. NON SONO ESEMPI VISIBILI DI SALVEZZA FUORI DALLA CHIESA. NON SONO ECCEZIONI OGGETTIVE PER IL DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS, IL CREDO DI ATANASIO E IL PROGRAMMA DEGLI ERRORI DI PAPA PIO IX.

Questa Chiesa, in questo mondo costituita e organizzata come società, sussiste nella Chiesa cattolica, governata dal successore di Pietro e dai vescovi in comunione con lui [13], ancorché al di fuori del suo organismo si trovino parecchi elementi di santificazione e di verità, che, appartenendo propriamente per dono di Dio alla Chiesa di Cristo, spingono verso l'unità cattolica. -  Lumen Gentium 8, Vatican Council II.

I catecumeni che per impulso dello Spirito Santo desiderano ed espressamente vogliono essere incorporati alla Chiesa, vengono ad essa congiunti da questo stesso desiderio, e la madre Chiesa li avvolge come già suoi con il proprio amore e con le proprie cure.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.

 But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator… Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.- Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II.

 Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation. – Unitatis Redintigratio 3 Vatican Council II

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men– Nostra Aetate 2, Vatican Council II.

All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all men,(32) and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.- Gaudium et Specs 22, Vatican Council II

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/01/the-minims-good-people-good-religious.html

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