So for the parish of Sant Agapito in Rome for the first time someone has told them that Vatican Council II can be interpreted rationally and it is not a break with Tradition

 

 

When in the parish of Sant Agapito Largo Preneste near Termini, Roma the priests and the laity make the visible-invisible distinction in the interpretation of Vatican Council II, then the community is saying outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation ( AG 7, LG 14, CCC 845,846 etc) and LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, Gs 22 etc are not objective exceptions.The community returns to Tradition at the Novus Ordo Mass in Italian.

The Sant Agapito Experience I mentioned in a previous blog post is not based upon the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or the Latin Mass but Vatican Council II interpreted rationally. There are many good apologetic books and resources but they all interpret Vatican Council II irrationally.

 Fr.Leonard Feeney, Brother Francis Maluf f.i, Brother Thomas Augustine f.i and Brother Andre Marie micm, did not interpret Vatican Council II rationally. They have been interpreting Vatican Council II like others who attend the Latin Mass but also like the liberals. The SSPX also interprets Vatican Council II irrationally and not rationally and then rejects, correctly, the irrtional version. But the SSPX does not interpret the Council rationally in harmony with Feneeyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

 They all did not interpret LG 8, 14, 1 5, 16, UR 3 NA 2, GS 22 etc as being physically invisible and not visible cases in 1949 to 1965 and the later years. Similarly Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the founders of the Ecclesia Dei communities also did not interpret LG 8 etc rationally. Instead they interpreted, and still interpret, the Council like the liberals and the Left.

So for the parish of San Agapito in Rome for the first time someone has told them that Vatican Council II can be interpreted rationally and it is not a break with Tradition.  - Lionel Andrades

Father Feeney and the Story of Saint Benedict Center

https://catholicism.org/father-feeney-and-the-story-of-saint-benedict-center.html

It is important to make the visible-invisible distinction when speaking about Vatican Council II

 

 Father Leonard Feeney  was very wrong when it came to Salvation and whom might

be saved. He can be forgiven for such a huge error, for the times in which he lived, He may have personally been responsible for the crisis in the Church which no one has been able to undue to this date,.

When he said  that there is no baptism of desire , as you have mentioned, before, he could be saying that there are no physically visible cases. We cannot know of any baptism of desire case. You agree with me  here too ( below).

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   BUT he was probably making the mistakes in his teachings both to me in person in 1971and in his extensive writings throughout his life. I must and will give him the benefit of the doubt but you my friend are in a different situation for I have provided you with direct quotations from Father Feeney in his book " The Bread of Life " which you have both never replied to or left my quotes unanswered.

I have responded to your quotations, making the visible and invisible distinction. I have also asked you to make this distinction in the interpretation of Vatican Council II. Things will become clear them. 

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   I will leave you YET another quote from Father Feeney from page 125 of his book '' The Bread of Life ''Nearly EVERY  page of this book amongst his other books are LOADED with such wrong views on salvation. On salvation on page 124 and 125 of his book.

 '' One is baptism of water and the Holy Ghost which the Church administers in which Catechumens need to be saved, I myself would say who dies before he is baptized is PUNISHED. This is quite morbid is it not. But let us return to this perfect act of love which is suppose to accompany Baptism of Desire so as to make this a substitute for Baptism by water, How does a man know that he has made a perfect act of love of God. I do not know " . 

Lionel 

Yes ! Since there are no physically visible cases. Not a single one in our human reality. You have agreed with me on this point before. So how can the baptism of desire be relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ? How can it be an objective exception ? How can it be said there is salvation outside the Church ? Where is the known catechumen saved outside the Church in 1949-2024?

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 Well you are correct on your statement You can not know BUT GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS PERSON and it is GOD who makes this deciscion and not you and Father Feeney. 

Yes.

The Church inspired by the Holy Spirit, dogmatically says all need faith and baptism for salvation ( Ad Gentes 7) and outside the Church there is no salvation ( Council of Florence 1442 etc). So on earth we know that all non Catholics, in general are oriented to Hell outside the Church. If there are exceptions for the norm, it will known only to God.

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 FOR it is GOD who decides on who receives BOB, BOD or II as a means of Salvation into the Catholic Faith.

Yes. Agreed.

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 IT is also GOD who decides for whatever reason that he chooses if  in any other religion  that a person was a Catholic before they died. 

Yes. Agreed.

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This is the Very reason that we as Catholics must teach all peoples that they must become a Catholic before they die in order to get to Heaven. BOB, BOD an II are in the hands of GOD alone,

Lionel.

Yes. Agreed.

- Lionel Andrades

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APRIL 10, 2023

Ralph Martin, Robert Fastiggi, John Martignoni and Fr. Stefano Visintin osb indicate Pope Francis has violated the Principle of Non Contradiction in his interpretation of Vatican Council II ( April 7, 2019 )

 

APRIL 7, 2019

Repost : Ralph Martin, Robert Fastiggi, John Martignoni and Fr. Stefano Visintin osb indicate Pope Francis has violated the Principle of Non Contradiction in his interpretation of Vatican Council II

JULY 14, 2017

Ralph Martin, Robert Fastiggi, John Martignoni and Fr. Stefano Visintin osb indicate Pope Francis has violated the Principle of Non Contradiction in his interpretation of Vatican Council II  

Ralph Martin, Robert Fastiggi, John Martignoni and St. Stefano Visintin osb indicate that Pope Francis has violated the Principle of Non Contradiction in his interpretation of Vatican Council II.

The pope has made a mistake.

There is a choice. He can correct the mistake.

The pope assumed unseen people are seen.This was objectively wrong.

He then assumed that these invisible people  were living examples of salvation outside the Church, they were saved  without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.

But this is false. Since these people do not exist in real life, in our reality.

LG 16, LG 8, LG 14, AG 7, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc refer to hypothetical cases but the pope assumes they are objective cases. Since he considers them a rupture with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS).

In this way Vatican Council II becomes a rupture with Tradition.

 If LG 16, LG 8, LG 14 etc  were not objective exceptions to the old exclusivist  ecclesiology, then it would mean the pope considers them as being invisible and theoretical cases.

Invisible people are objective exceptions to all needing to be members of the Church for salvation in 2017? Think about it. Is this real? Can a pope reason like this?

Archbishop Thomas E.Gullickson says 'No'.They are not exceptions to the dogma EENS.He has said that Vatican Council II without the irrational premse is traditional and he has called upon the Society of St.Pius X to accept Vatican Council II. He means Vatican Council II without the use of the irrational premise in the interpretation.

So we have Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) without the irrational premise and Vatican Council II ( Cushingite) with the irrational premise.uncil II ( Feeneyite) when they say invisible cases are just invisible.

Pope Francis violates the Principle of Non Contradiction  when he assumes invisible cases are visible and so LG 16, LG 8, UR 3 etc are exceptions to the dogma EENS as it was known to the missionaries in the 16th century.So EENS is no more like it was for the missionaries of the 16th century, for Pope Francis, since Vatican Council II is a  rupture ' a development'.

It was a development. This was confirmed by Pope Benedict XVI in March 2016 for Avvenire.

Pope Francis can switch to Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) but then he would be contradicting Pope Benedict 's statement on Vatican Council II being a rupture with EENS.

If Pope Francis chooses Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) it would be easier for the SSPX and the Franciscans of the Immaculate  to accept the Council.It would also be easier for the Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit, where Ralph Martin and Robert Fastigggi teach, to accept a rational and traditional interpretation of Vatican Council II.

Now the pope is setting a bad example, a heretical example for the Church with Vatican Council II (Cushingite). -Lionel Andrades

Ralph Martin, Robert Fastiggi, John Martignoni and Fr.Stefano Visintin osb agree that somebody invisible cannot be visible at the same time

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/07/ralph-martin-robert-fastiggi-john.html

 

 

Mt.Podbro Rosary at Medugorje

 

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