Saturday, October 7, 2023

Per don Paolo Boumis non ci sono casi visibili nel 2023 di un non cattolico salvato con il battesimo del desiderio o dell'ignoranza invincibile e questo sarebbe anche il parere dei sacerdoti e dei religiosi laici della parrocchia e anche del suo vescovo: Lo stesso avverrebbe con i Vescovi Ausiliari di Roma e con il Vicario Generale Cardinale Angelo Donatis



Per don Paolo Boumis non ci sono casi visibili nel 2023 di un non cattolico salvato con il battesimo del desiderio o dell'ignoranza invincibile e questo sarebbe anche il parere dei sacerdoti e dei religiosi laici della parrocchia e anche del suo vescovo:  Lo stesso avverrebbe con i Vescovi Ausiliari di Roma e con il Vicario Generale Cardinale Angelo Donatis  



Padre Paolo Boumis ha confermato che non ci sono casi visibili nel 2023 di un non cattolico salvato con il battesimo di desiderio o di ignoranza invincibile e questo sarebbe anche il parere dei sacerdoti e dei religiosi laici della parrocchia e anche del suo vescovo. 

Il suo accordo su questo punto particolare indica che i vescovi ausiliari di Roma e il cardinale vicario generale di Roma, Angelo Donatis, mantengono la stessa posizione. Al giorno d'oggi non ci sono casi fisicamente visibili di non cattolici salvati al di fuori della Chiesa. 

Nella nostra corrispondenza via e-mail concorda sul fatto che se qualcuno è stato salvato al di fuori della Chiesa questo poteva essere conosciuto solo da Dio. Non possiamo vedere o incontrare nessuna persona del genere nella vita reale. Questo è qualcosa di ovvio e anche un non cristiano o uno scolaretto sarebbe d'accordo. 

Quindi il suo vescovo e i vescovi ausiliari di Roma sarebbero d'accordo con lui quando dice che LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 ecc. si riferiscono solo a casi ipotetici e invisibili nei tempi attuali. Questo è buon senso. Non è necessario conoscere la teologia Cattolica per capirlo. 

Quindi, quando la Curia del Vicariato di Roma e padre Boumis, parroco della chiesa di San Agapito, a Roma, dicono che non ci sono casi fisici di battesimo di desiderio, di salvezza nell'invincibile ignoranza, ecc., ci sono delle implicazioni. Ci sono delle conclusioni. Sono uguali ai miei. 

Quindi per loro il rosso non è un’eccezione per il blu, quando interpretano il Concilio Vaticano II, Ad Gentes 7. 


Il passaggio in rosso si riferisce a casi ipotetici e invisibili nel periodo 1965-2023. Il passaggio in rosso non contraddice il passaggio ortodosso in blu che sostiene il dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). Lo stesso vale per il Catechismo della Chiesa Cattolica 846-848 ecc.



Quindi quando i vescovi ausiliari di Roma e i religiosi e i laici della parrocchia di Sant’Agapito affermano razionalmente il Concilio Vaticano II (LG 16 ecc. si riferiscono solo a casi ipotetici), ci sono delle conclusioni. Ci sono le seguenti conclusioni. 

1. Quando interpreto razionalmente il Concilio p. Paulo e il suo vescovo non possono correggermi. Sanno che ho ragione. 

2. Vuol dire che la Lettera del Sant'Uffizio all'arcivescovo di Boston del 1949, relativa a p. Leonard Feeney (LOHO), ha commesso un errore. Il battesimo del desiderio e l'essere salvati nell'invincibile ignoranza non contraddicono l'EENS Feeneyita. Non dovrebbe contraddire l'EENS Feeneyita per il Vicariato di p. Paolo. 

3. Rahner, Ratzinger, Congar, Bea, Balthazar, Lefebvre e Kung hanno commesso un errore quando non hanno corretto l'errore nel LOHO del 1949. Lo hanno invece ripetuto nel Concilio Vaticano II. Questa sarebbe l'intesa nelle diocesi di Roma. 

4. Per me, non c'era nulla nel Concilio Vaticano II che contraddicesse l'EENS di Feeney. Non c'erano eccezioni per l'EENS del Concilio Lateranense IV (1215). Dovrebbero essere d'accordo con me. 

5. Allora dicevo a Don Paulo Boumis che quando questo mese terrà la catechesi per gli adulti in parrocchia, interpreterà il Concilio Vaticano II come una rottura con l'EENS. Nelle mie catechesi, il Concilio ha una continuità con l'EENS e il resto della Tradizione. Per lui LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 ecc si riferirebbero a 1) casi fisicamente visibili; 2) persone conosciute salvate al di fuori della Chiesa e 3) eccezioni pratiche per il dogma EENS, il Credo di Atanasio ecc. È solo con questa irrazionalità che si potrebbe creare una rottura con la Tradizione. 

Per me LG 8, 14, 16 ecc. si riferirebbero a casi invisibili, persone sconosciute e invisibili e quindi non fanno eccezione al passato ecclesiocentrismo, alla passata ecclesiologia esclusivista della Chiesa Cattolica. 

6. Ho informato il parroco che stavo affermando tutti i Documenti Magistrali che avevo interpretato razionalmente (le persone invisibili sono invisibili, LG 16 ecc si riferiscono a casi invisibili nel 2023). Mentre lui ha accettato tutti i Documenti Magistrali e li ha interpretati irrazionalmente. Non lo ha negato. 

7. È stato difficile per p. Paulo ad accettare che il suo insegnamento del Concilio Vaticano II, sostenuto da tutta la Chiesa, non era magisteriale. Eppure non poteva negare che il BOD e l'I.I sono sempre invisibili. 

8.Vent'anni fa in parrocchia mi è stato detto che BOD e I.I erano eccezioni per EENS. Ora, 20 anni dopo, non possono più dirlo. Né possono negare che la loro interpretazione del Concilio Vaticano II non sia magisteriale. 

9. Tutti i sacerdoti dei Missionari della Carità, Uomini Contemplativi, della parrocchia, e delle Suore Missionarie della Carità di Madre Teresa, nella vicina Casilina, dove hanno la loro casa di formazione, sarebbero d'accordo con Don Paolo e il Vicariato di Roma. Quindi sarebbero d’accordo con me anche nella mia interpretazione del Concilio Vaticano II. La nostra premessa e la nostra inferenza sarebbero le stesse. Quindi la conclusione sarebbe tradizionale.

10.Quindi quando incontrano non cattolici e non cristiani saprebbero che sono orientati all'Inferno senza la fede cattolica e il battesimo dell'acqua (AG 7 ecc). LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 non farebbero eccezione.

Ci sono cose buone nelle altre religioni (NA 2 ecc.) ma le altre religioni non sono vie di salvezza (AG 7, CCC 845.846 ecc.).- Lionel Andrades


OCTOBER 7, 2023

For Fr.Paolo Boumis there are no visible cases in 2023 of a non Catholic saved with the baptism of desire or invincible ignorance and this would also be the view of the priests and lay religious in the parish and also his bishop: Auxiliary bishops at the Rome Vicariate too

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/10/frpaolo-boumis-has-confirmed-that-there.html


THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE

Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. He is not saved, however, who, though part of the body of the Church, does not persevere in charity. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but, as it were, only in a "bodily" manner and not "in his heart."(12*) All the Church's children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.(13*)
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE

 Unitatis Redintigratio (Decree on Ecumenism), Vatican Council II 
It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life - that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God. This people of God, though still in its members liable to sin, is ever growing in Christ during its pilgrimage on earth, and is guided by God's gentle wisdom, according to His hidden designs, until it shall happily arrive at the fullness of eternal glory in the heavenly Jerusalem.-Unitatis Redintigratio (Decree on Ecumenism), Vatican Council II

THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE


 Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848 
 "Outside the Church there is no salvation"  846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:  

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: 
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848 


THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE


 DOMINUS IESUS 


IV. UNICITY AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH

16.  The Lord Jesus, the only Saviour, did not only establish a simple community of disciples, but constituted the Church as a salvific mystery: he himself is in the Church and the Church is in him (cf. Jn 15:1ff.; Gal 3:28; Eph 4:15-16; Acts 9:5).  Therefore, the fullness of Christ's salvific mystery belongs also to the Church, inseparably united to her Lord. Indeed, Jesus Christ continues his presence and his work of salvation in the Church and by means of the Church (cf. Col 1:24-27),47 which is his body (cf. 1 Cor 12:12-13, 27; Col 1:18).48 And thus, just as the head and members of a living body, though not identical, are inseparable, so too Christ and the Church can neither be confused nor separated, and constitute a single “whole Christ”.49 This same inseparability is also expressed in the New Testament by the analogy of the Church as the Bride of Christ (cf. 2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:25-29; Rev 21:2,9).50
Therefore, in connection with the unicity and universality of the salvific mediation of Jesus Christ, the unicity of the Church founded by him must be firmly believed as a truth of Catholic faith. Just as there is one Christ, so there exists a single body of Christ, a single Bride of Christ: “a single Catholic and apostolic Church”.51 Furthermore, the promises of the Lord that he would not abandon his Church (cf. Mt 16:18; 28:20) and that he would guide her by his Spirit (cf. Jn16:13) mean, according to Catholic faith, that the unicity and the unity of the Church — like everything that belongs to the Church's integrity — will never be lacking.52
The Catholic faithful are required to profess that there is an historical continuity — rooted in the apostolic succession53— between the Church founded by Christ and the Catholic Church: “This is the single Church of Christ... which our Saviour, after his resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care (cf. Jn 21:17), commissioning him and the other Apostles to extend and rule her (cf. Mt 28:18ff.), erected for all ages as ‘the pillar and mainstay of the truth' (1 Tim3:15). This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in [subsistit in] the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him”.54  With the expressionsubsistit in, the Second Vatican Council sought to harmonize two doctrinal statements: on the one hand, that the Church of Christ, despite the divisions which exist among Christians, continues to exist fully only in the Catholic Church, and on the other hand, that “outside of her structure, many elements can be found of sanctification and truth”,55 that is, in those Churches and ecclesial communities which are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church.56 But with respect to these, it needs to be stated that “they derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”
-Dominus Iesus 16. 

________________________________

THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE


LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 DURING THE PONTIFICATE OF POPE PIUS XII


( This letter was  an inter office correspondence between cardinals. However the liberals placed it in the Denzinger and it has been referenced in Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It contains an objective error when it assumes invisible and unknown cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are visible and known exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Upon this Letter is based the New Theology.)
 We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those  things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemnjudgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (, n. 1792).
Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there
 is no salvation outside the Church.
However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church...
Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, 
which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth...

Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless  refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Not only did the Savior command that all nations should  enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.
In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects,necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic
 necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).
  Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.
However, this desire need not always be explicit,as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

___________________

OCTOBER 1, 2023

Il parroco è d'accordo con me. Non ci sono casi visibili di essere salvati nell'ignoranza invincibile e nel battesimo del desiderio nei tempi attuali.

 


1 OTTOBRE 2023

Il parroco è d'accordo con me. Non ci sono casi visibili di essere salvati nell'ignoranza invincibile e nel battesimo del desiderio nei tempi attuali. Ieri ho parlato con Don Paulo Boumis, parroco della chiesa di San Agapito, a Roma. Non ha avuto obiezioni quando detto che il battesimo del desiderio (BOD) e la salvezza nell'ignoranza invincibile (I. I) si riferivano a casi invisibili. Sono sempre ipotetici. Era d'accordo con me. 

Questo punto è centrale nel mio scritto.

 

Cosi lui è d'accordo con me quando affermo che il battesimo di desiderio e salvezza nell’invincibile ignoranza,non fanno eccezione alla tradizionale interpretazione rigida del dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS). 

Nel 2003 vivevo nella casa maschile delle Missionarie della Carità (contemplativa) di Madre Teresa, che si trova in questa parrocchia. A quel tempo credevo nel dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus e sapevo che questo insegnamento non poteva essere cambiato. Eppure la Lumen Gentium 16 lo contraddice. Quindi l’EENS era obsoleto a Roma per il cardinale Ratzinger. 

Col tempo, con l'aiuto di Gesù, della Madonna e del mio Angelo Custode, ho avuto un'intuizione. Ciò mi è stato confermato da un sacerdote. Mi sono reso conto che LG 14, LG 16 ecc. era sempre ipotetici. Così la Lettera del Sant'Uffizio all'arcivescovo di Boston, relativa a p. Leonard Feeney (LOHO), ha commesso un errore. Il BOD e I.I non contraddicono Feeneyite EENS. 

Rahner, Ratzinger, Congar, Bea, Balthazar, Lefebvre e Kung hanno commesso un errore quando non hanno corretto l'errore nel LOHO del 1949. L’hanno invece ripetuto nel Concilio Vaticano II. Sembra che si voglia eliminare il dogma EENS in ogni modo possibile. 

Per me, non c'era nulla nel Concilio Vaticano II che contraddicesse l'EENS Feeneyista. Non c'erano eccezioni per l'EENS del Concilio Lateranense IV (1215).

LA SUA CATECHESI È UNA ROTTURA CON IL PASSATO. LA MIA È UNA CONTINUITÀ 

Quindi stavo dicendo a p. Paulo che quando questo mese terrà la catechesi per gli adulti in parrocchia, interpreterà il Concilio Vaticano II come una rottura con l'EENS. Nelle mie catechesi, il Concilio ha una continuità con l'EENS e il resto della Tradizione. Per lui LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 ecc si riferirebbero a 1) casi fisicamente visibili; 2) persone conosciute salvate al di fuori della Chiesa e 3) eccezioni pratiche per il dogma EENS, il Credo di Atanasio ecc. È solo con questa irrazionalità che si potrebbe creare una rottura con la Tradizione.  

Per me LG 8,14,16 ecc. si riferirebbe a casi invisibili, persone sconosciute e invisibili e quindi non fanno eccezione al passato ecclesiocentrismo, alla passata ecclesiologia esclusivista della Chiesa Cattolica. 

ITNERPRETARE IL CONCILIO VATICANO II CON FEENEYISMO O CUSHINGISMO

 Per afferrare questo concetto e spiegarlo più facilmente, ho chiamato, confondendo i casi invisibili con quelli visibili, Cushingism.Don  Paolo era un Cushingita come i papi da Paolo VI a Francesco. Quando i casi invisibili sono visti semplicemente come invisibili, lo chiamo Feeneyismo. Interpreto il Concilio Vaticano II con Feeneyismo e non Cushingismo. 

Mi rendo conto che sono l'unico in parrocchia a interpretare razionalmente il Concilio Vaticano II. Gli altri in parrocchia interpretano irrazionalmente il Concilio Vaticano II come i papi e i Prefetti del Dicastero per la Dottrina della Fede (già CDF), Vaticano. 

IL PARROCO INTERPRETA IRRAZIONAMENTE I DOCUMENTI MAGISTRALI 

Ho informato il parroco che stavo affermando tutti i Documenti Magistrali che avevo interpretato razionalmente (le persone invisibili sono invisibili, LG 16 ecc si riferisce a casi invisibili nel 2023). Mentre lui ha accettato tutti i Documenti Magistrali e li ha interpretati in modo irrazionale. 

PAPA PIO XII NON MAGISTRALE SUL BDD E I.I 

La LOHO del 1949 non era magistrale quando prevedeva che BOD e I.I fossero eccezioni per EENS. Posso accettare la prima parte della LOHO che affermava l'EENS tradizionale. Poiché la seconda parte è irrazionale e contraddice la prima, non può essere magistrale. La conclusione della LOHO del 1949 è che non è necessario che tutti siano membri della Chiesa per la salvezza. Questo è eretico e scismatico. 

Si tratta di una rottura con il Magistero della Chiesa Cattolica precedente al 1949, che sosteneva la tradizionale interpretazione esclusivista dell’EENS. 

Quando Papa Pio XII permise alla LOHO del 1949 di proiettare casi invisibili di BOD e I. I come eccezioni fisicamente visibili per EENS, non era Magisterale. Quindi il Concilio Vaticano II non è Magistrale quando è interpretato con questo ragionamento irrazionale. 

I preti della parrocchia, bisogna accettano l'errore della LOHO, interpreteranno il Concilio Vaticano II come una rottura con “la fede dei Padri”. Per loro c'è rottura in ogni Messa, rito e liturgia. Ciò è previsto quando accettano la Nuova Teologia della LOHO che si basa su una falsa premessa. Evito la falsa premessa. Con la premessa razionale ritorno all'Antica Teologia e agli insegnamenti dei santi, dei papi, dei Padri della Chiesa e degli Apostoli. 

NON POTEVA NEGARE CHE IL BOD AND I.I SONO SEMPRE INVISIBILE

È stato difficile per p. Paulo ad accettare che il suo insegnamento del Concilio Vaticano II, sostenuto da tutta la Chiesa, non era magisterale. Eppure non poteva negare che il BOD e l'I.I sono sempre invisibili. 

Vent'anni fa in parrocchia mi è stato detto che BOD e I.I erano eccezioni per EENS. Ora 20 anniÈ stato difficile per p. Paulo ad accettare che il suo insegnamento del Concilio Vaticano II, sostenuto da tutta la Chiesa, non era magisteriale. Eppure non poteva negare che il BOD e l'I.I sono sempre invisibili.

 Vent'anni fa in parrocchia mi è stato detto che BOD e I.I erano eccezioni per EENS. Ora, 20 anni dopo, non possono più dirlo. Né possono negare che la loro interpretazione del Concilio Vaticano II non sia magistrale.-Lionel Andrades


OCTOBER 1, 2023

Parish priest agrees with me. There are no visible cases of being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire in the present times

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/10/parish-priest-agrees-with-me-there-are.html

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/10/il-parroco-e-daccordo-con-me-non-ci.html

For Fr.Paolo Boumis there are no visible cases in 2023 of a non Catholic saved with the baptism of desire or invincible ignorance and this would also be the view of the priests and lay religious in the parish and also his bishop: It would be the same with the Auxiliary Bishops of Rome and the Vicar General Cardinal Angelo Donatis

 


Fr.Paolo Boumis has confirmed that there are no visible cases in 2023 of a non Catholic saved with the baptism of desire or invincible ignorance and this would also be the view of the priests and lay religious in the parish and also his bishop. 



His agreement on this particular point indicates that the auxiliary bishops of Rome and the Cardinal-Vicar General of Rome, Angelo Donatis hold the same position. There are no physically visible cases of non Catholics saved outside the Church in the present times.

In our correspondence via e-mail he agrees that if anyone was saved outside the Church it could only be known to God. We cannot see or meet any such person in real life. This is something obvious and even a non Christian or a school boy would agree.

So his bishop and the auxiliary bishops of Rome would agree with him when he says that LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc refer to only hypothetical and invisible cases in the present times.This is common sense. One does not have to know Catholic theology to understand this.

When the Curia of the Rome Vicariate and Fr Boumis, the parish priest at the church San Agapito, Rome say there are no physically cases of the baptism of desire, being saved in invincible ignorance etc, there are implications. There are conclusions. They are the same as mine.

The red is not an exception for the blue for them, when they interpret Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7.

The passage in red refers to hypothetical and invisible cases in 1965-2023. The passage in red does not contradict the orthodox passage in blue which supports the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).It is the same with the Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848 etc.


So when the auxiliary bishops of Rome and the religious and lay people in the parish of Sant Agapito, affirm Vatican Council II rationally (LG 16 etc refer to hypothetical cases only), there are conclusions.

 There are the following conclusions.

1. When I interpret the Council rationally Fr. Paulo and his bishop cannot correct me. They know I am correct.

2. It means that the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston, relative to Fr. Leonard Feeney (LOHO), made a mistake. The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance do not contradict Feeneyite EENS.It should not contradict Feeneyite EENS for the Vicariate for Fr. Paolo Boumis.

3. Rahner, Ratzinger, Congar, Bea, Balthazar, Lefebvre and Kung made a mistake when they did not correct the error in the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston relative to Fr. Leonard Feeney (LOHO). Instead they repeated it at Vatican Council II. 

4. For me, there was nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict Feeneyite EENS.There were no exceptions for the EENS of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215).They would have to agree with me.

5. So I was telling Fr. Paulo that when he has his catechesis for adults in the parish this month, he will interpret Vatican Council II as a rupture with EENS. In my catechesis, the  the Council has a continuity with EENS and the rest of Tradition. For him LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc would refer to 1) physically visible cases; 2) known people saved outside the Church and 3) practical exceptions for the dogma EENS, the Athanasius Creed etc.It is only with this irrationality that he could create a break with Tradition. 

For me LG 8, 14, 16 etc would refer to invisible cases, unknown and invisible people and so they are not exceptions for the past ecclesiocentrism, the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.

6. I informed the parish priest that I was affirming all Magisterial Documents which I interpreted rationally (invisible people are invisible, LG 16 etc refer to invisible cases in 2023).While he accepted all Magisterial Documents and interpreted them irrationally. He has not denied this.

7. It was difficult for Fr. Paulo to accept that his teaching of Vatican Council II, supported by the whole Church, was not Magisterial. Yet he could not deny that the BOD and I.I are always invisible. 

8.Twenty years back in the parish I was told that BOD and I.I were exceptions for EENS. Now 20 years later they can no more say this. Neither can they deny that their interpretation of Vatican Council II : is not Magisterial.

8. All the priests of the Missionaries of Charity, Contemplative Men, in the parish, and the Missionaries of Charity Religious Sisters of Mother Teresa,  at nearby Casilina, where they have their formation house, would agree with Don Paulo and the Rome Vicariate.So they would also agree with me in my interpretation of Vatican Council II. Our premise and inference would be the same. So the conclusion would be traditional.

9. Since Vatican Council II, in LG 8,14,15,16,UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc has no exceptions for EENS and the Athanasius Creed, they are all saying, presently,  that all non Catholics in general are oriented to Hell without faith and the baptism of water (AG 7).Non Catholic religions are not paths to salvation ( LG 14, CCC 845,846).They will have to interpret the Catechism of the Catholic Church rationally (845,846).

10.So when they meet non Catholics and non Chistians they would know that they are oriented to Hell without Catholic faith and the baptism of water (AG 7 etc).LG 8, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 would not be exceptions. 

There are good things in other religions ( NA 2 etc) but the other religions are not paths to salvation ( AG 7, CCC 845,846 etc).

-Lionel Andrades



THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE

Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. He is not saved, however, who, though part of the body of the Church, does not persevere in charity. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but, as it were, only in a "bodily" manner and not "in his heart."(12*) All the Church's children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.(13*)
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II

THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE

 Unitatis Redintigratio (Decree on Ecumenism), Vatican Council II 
It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life - that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God. This people of God, though still in its members liable to sin, is ever growing in Christ during its pilgrimage on earth, and is guided by God's gentle wisdom, according to His hidden designs, until it shall happily arrive at the fullness of eternal glory in the heavenly Jerusalem.-Unitatis Redintigratio (Decree on Ecumenism), Vatican Council II

THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE


 Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848 
 "Outside the Church there is no salvation"  846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:  

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: 
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846-848 


THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE


 DOMINUS IESUS 


IV. UNICITY AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH

16.  The Lord Jesus, the only Saviour, did not only establish a simple community of disciples, but constituted the Church as a salvific mystery: he himself is in the Church and the Church is in him (cf. Jn 15:1ff.; Gal 3:28; Eph 4:15-16; Acts 9:5).  Therefore, the fullness of Christ's salvific mystery belongs also to the Church, inseparably united to her Lord. Indeed, Jesus Christ continues his presence and his work of salvation in the Church and by means of the Church (cf. Col 1:24-27),47 which is his body (cf. 1 Cor 12:12-13, 27; Col 1:18).48 And thus, just as the head and members of a living body, though not identical, are inseparable, so too Christ and the Church can neither be confused nor separated, and constitute a single “whole Christ”.49 This same inseparability is also expressed in the New Testament by the analogy of the Church as the Bride of Christ (cf. 2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:25-29; Rev 21:2,9).50
Therefore, in connection with the unicity and universality of the salvific mediation of Jesus Christ, the unicity of the Church founded by him must be firmly believed as a truth of Catholic faith. Just as there is one Christ, so there exists a single body of Christ, a single Bride of Christ: “a single Catholic and apostolic Church”.51 Furthermore, the promises of the Lord that he would not abandon his Church (cf. Mt 16:18; 28:20) and that he would guide her by his Spirit (cf. Jn16:13) mean, according to Catholic faith, that the unicity and the unity of the Church — like everything that belongs to the Church's integrity — will never be lacking.52
The Catholic faithful are required to profess that there is an historical continuity — rooted in the apostolic succession53— between the Church founded by Christ and the Catholic Church: “This is the single Church of Christ... which our Saviour, after his resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care (cf. Jn 21:17), commissioning him and the other Apostles to extend and rule her (cf. Mt 28:18ff.), erected for all ages as ‘the pillar and mainstay of the truth' (1 Tim3:15). This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in [subsistit in] the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him”.54  With the expressionsubsistit in, the Second Vatican Council sought to harmonize two doctrinal statements: on the one hand, that the Church of Christ, despite the divisions which exist among Christians, continues to exist fully only in the Catholic Church, and on the other hand, that “outside of her structure, many elements can be found of sanctification and truth”,55 that is, in those Churches and ecclesial communities which are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church.56 But with respect to these, it needs to be stated that “they derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”
-Dominus Iesus 16. 

________________________________

THE RED IS NOT AN EXCEPTION FOR THE BLUE


LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 DURING THE PONTIFICATE OF POPE PIUS XII


( This letter was  an inter office correspondence between cardinals. However the liberals placed it in the Denzinger and it has been referenced in Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It contains an objective error when it assumes invisible and unknown cases of the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are visible and known exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Upon this Letter is based the New Theology.)
 We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those  things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemnjudgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (, n. 1792).
Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there
 is no salvation outside the Church.
However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church...
Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, 
which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth...

Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless  refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Not only did the Savior command that all nations should  enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.
In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects,necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic
 necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).
  Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.
However, this desire need not always be explicit,as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

___________________

OCTOBER 1, 2023

Parish priest agrees with me. There are no visible cases of being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire in the present times

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/10/parish-priest-agrees-with-me-there-are.html

OCTOBER 1, 2023

Il parroco è d'accordo con me. Non ci sono casi visibili di essere salvati nell'ignoranza invincibile e nel battesimo del desiderio nei tempi attuali.

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/10/il-parroco-e-daccordo-con-me-non-ci.html

______________________________




OCTOBER 1, 2023

Parish priest agrees with me. There are no visible cases of being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire in the present times



Yesterday I spoke with Father Paulo Boumis, the parish priest at the church San Agapito, in Rome. He had no objections when I said that the baptism of desire(BOD) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) referred to invisible cases. They are always hypothetical.He agreed with me. 

This point is central in my writing. 

So he agrees with me when I say that the BOD and I.I are not exceptions for the traditional strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS).

In 2003 I was living at the Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity (contemplative) home for men, which is in this parish. At that time I believed in the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and I knew that this teaching could not be changed. Yet  Lumen Gentium 16  contradicted it. So EENS was obsolete in Rome for Cardinal Ratzinger.

Over time, with the help of Jesus, Our Lady and my  Guardian Angel, I had an insight.This was was confirmed by a priest. I realized that LG 14, LG 16 etc, were always hypothetical. So the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston, relative to Fr. Leonard Feeney (LOHO), made a mistake. The BOD and I.I do not contradict Feeneyite EENS.

Rahner, Ratzinger, Congar, Bea, Balthazar, Lefebvre and Kung made a mistake when they did not correct the error in the 1949 LOHO. Instead they repeated it at Vatican Council II. It seems as if they wanted to do away with the dogma EENS, in any way possible.

For me, there was nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict Feeneyite EENS.There were no exceptions for the EENS of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215).

    HIS CATECHESIS IS A RUPTURE WITH THE PAST MINE IS A CONTINUITY

So I was telling Fr. Paulo that when he has his catechesis for adults in the parish this month, he will interpret Vatican Council II as a rupture with EENS. In my catechesis, the  the Council has a continuity with EENS and the rest of Tradition. For him LG 8, LG 14, LG 16, UR 3, NA 2, GS 22 etc would refer to 1) physically visible cases; 2) known people saved outside the Church and 3) practical exceptions for the dogma EENS, the Athanasius Creed etc.It is only with this irrationality that he could create a break with Tradition. 

For me LG 8,14,16 etc would refer to invisible cases, unknown and invisible people and so they are not exceptions for the past ecclesiocentrism, the past exclusivist ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.

ITNERPRETING VATICAN COUNCIL II WITH FEENEYISM OR CUSHINGISM

To get a handle on this concept and explain it more easily, I called, confusing invisible cases as being visible, Cushingism.Fr. Paulo was a Cushingite like the popes from Paul VI to Francis. When invisible cases are seen as just being invisible, I call it Feeneyism. I interpret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism and not Cushingism.I realize that I am the only one in the parish interpreting Vatican Council II rationally.The others in the parish interpret Vatican Council II irrationally like the popes and the Prefects of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith ( formerly CDF), Vatican.

THE PARISH PRIEST INTERPRETS MAGISTERIAL DOCUMENTS IRRATIONALLY

I informed the parish priest that I was affirming all Magisterial Documents  which I interpreted rationally ( invisible people are invisible, LG 16 etc refer to invisible cases in 2023).While he accepted all Magisterial Documents and interpreted them with irrationally. 

POPE PIUS XII NOT MAGISTERIAL ON BOD AND I.I- INTERPRETATION

The 1949 LOHO was not Magisterial when it projected BOD and I.I as being exceptions for EENS. I can accept the first part of LOHO which affirmed traditional EENS. Since the second part is irrational and contradicts the first part it cannot be Magisterial.The conclusion of the 1949 LOHO is that everyone does not need to be a member of the Church for salvation. This is heretical and schismatic.

It is a break with the pre-1949 Magisterium of the Catholic Church which upheld the traditional exclusivist interpretation of EENS.

When Pope Pius XII allowed the 1949 LOHO to project invisible cases of BOD and I.I as being physically visible exceptions for EENS it was not Magisterial.So Vatican Council II is not Magisterial when it is interpreted with this irrational reasoning.

So the priests in the parish, because they accept the error in the LOHO, will be interpreting Vatican Council II as a  break with 'the faith of the Fathers'.For them there is rupture at every Mass, rite and liturgy. This is expected when they accept the New Theology of the LOHO which is based upon the fake premise. I avoid the false premise. With the rational premise I return to the Old Theology and the teachings of the saints, popes, Church Fathers and Apostles.

It was difficult for Fr. Paulo to accept that his teaching of Vatican Council II, supported by the whole Church, was not Magisterial. Yet he could not deny that the BOD and I.I are always invisible.

Twenty years back in the parish I was told that BOD and I.I were exceptions for EENS. Now 20 years later they can no more says this.Neither can they deny that their interpretation of Vatican Council II is not Magisterial.

I- Lionel Andrades

https://parrocchiasantagapito.jimdofree.com/attivit%C3%A0-orari-e-contatti/

https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2023/10/parish-priest-agrees-with-me-there-are.html